More hedgetalk

[AHPP]

Still pottering round at the parents’, learning on the hedges here, broadly safe from public ridicule. What to do with this one? My summary of the internet suggests coppice it, pull out the elder, plant gaps and the blank stretch, fence the sheep off it and hope to lay it in a few years. Or should I saddle up and put the big ones down as is?

 

[AHPP]

 

 

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Edited February 28 by AHPP

[green heart]

For goodness sake lad, get your saw fired up, and get it layed, pronto ! 

 

If the pleachers look too heavy to hold on your own (and you can't manage to persuade anyone to be your assistant for an hour), then just cut the top out of the pleacher FIRST of all ?

It means that you'll be laying a shorter length of 3-6' Hawthorn stem, but with a few finger thickness branches still attached to it, ideally..

It will still sprout vigorously, in a few weeks .

Hope that makes sense? 

 

A layed hedge is so much richer, for a whole host of ecological perspectives, than one that's been coppiced off!

 

Please can these posts not be tacked onto one of our other existing hedgelaying threads ?

 

[green heart]

And having just watched your download...

If there's too much basal decay on the odd pleacher, then just get your spade out, and root-lay it over (bonus: even more micro-habitats created!).

I would concede, if I was pricing up laying several hundred metres of your hedge, hypothetically, then, yes I'd be wondering about bringing in a 360° machine. 

[markieg31]

I am in a hedge of two sides today, the cream is that it is a virgin hedge, 15ft high in places, guessing 10 years old, I am the first one at it since it has been planted. Other side of the coin is that it is pure blackthorn with heavy and thick bramble.  I did have a section with no bramble and it was decent. Once into bramble it has pushed it all about so not so good for finding plants for laying. Got a 2.6 with tree shear and have been mainly using it for pulling clumps of bramble out. 

 

Many hedges are over stood at my place. I try and lay what I can. As for cutting out elder as mentioned earlier I understand it does make a 'good hedge ' but it is a great source for the livestock and wildlife. 

 

Listen to the hedge and all will become clear. 

[Peewit]

I wish people (Natural England - you listening?) would stop putting blackthorn in hedge mixes. 

[markieg31]

I think it may have been a national trust creation, got another others that are all black thorn and then another that is wall to wall hawthorn, delicious! Well the farm had 70 horses previously so I assume they needed something that would be resilient to the nags. 

 

Hawthorn and black thron flower early on in the season so I think that is why they often get put in as part of the mix, grows okay and makes a thick hedge that's for sure. The bramble does my bloody head in. So in there that the digger doesn't have enough sleep power just to pull it straight out. Slewing back one way and then using momentum to tug it, eventually it goes, well something does. 

[Peewit]

Yes they put blackthorn in for the blossom and fruits, thinking it's great for biodiversity, which it may be but it's useless as a hedge. Lays easily, soft as soap and sticks to itself like velcro. But the regrowth habit is no good. Cutting a pleacher when laying doesn't produce leaders from the cambium layer but stimulates sucker growth from the root system. When those suckers are doing more photosynthesising than the original stem the pleacher dies. So unless you ruthlessly cut back all suckering as soon as it appears - which no one ever does - you end up with a dead hedge and a thicket of suckers advancing into the field. 

 

I try telling NE, NT etc that if they must plant blackthorn plant it away from the hedgeline where it won't do any harm, like woodland margins, river banks etc, but to no avail. 

Personally I'm not convinced it is that great for wildlife when planted en masse. Small birds will nest in it for safety but the middle of an old blackthorn hedge or thicket that has been allowed to sucker unchecked will just be a lifeless tangle of dead twigs. Or worse, dead twigs laced with bramble and bracken. 

 

[AHPP]

What’s the craic with elder? My appraisal is it’s bad. There’s a different bit of hedge here where one has shaded a large hole out. But on this stretch in question there are a couple of instances where it’s elder or a ten foot gap. Easy lay now vs problems later. Probably not the first to face that dilemma. 

[Peewit]

Elder is bad news in a hedge. Out competes for nutrients, smothers and kills off other species. I always cut it down the the ground and spray the stump with glyphosate. 

Usually a sign of poor hedgerow management if elder has got a foothold. Desirable species beaten to death with tractor flails creating weak leaf cover and gaps. Elder moves into these spaces and rapidly colonises the whole hedge so it's nothing but elder.  

 

Elder is a fascinating species. Surrounded by myth and folklore and hosts an enormous variety of other life. But best a stand-alone tree in open space or a spinney (same as blackthorn) where it can do it's own thing. Not in a hedge.