wood burners

[Johnsond]

10 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

No need to bicker, we have some common ground on this thread

I thought so too 

The “AI alert “ post was totally pointless 

[Johnsond]

11 minutes ago, sime42 said:

wasn't presenting you with an opportunity to hyjack yet another decent thread to push one of your tedious agendas. Keep up

42 you mentioned Oil Companies revenues being lost, apart from the UK sector that is factually incorrect. 
I’ll leave you to it lad, you are obviously judging by your AI post and the last one itching for an argument. Shit stirring for the sake of it will do no one any favours. 
 

[Johnsond]

22 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

I wonder, I would expect plastics to be a small part of oil use.

 

OTOH I like wood based things. The firm I first harvested for made brush heads, cotton reels (who can remember making  little machines to race with from a wooden cotton reels, lolly stick, rubber band and a disc cut from a candle?) , divan bed legs and other things I cannot remember. He said his sales dropped when the price of oil was low and firms like Addis could undercut him. 

 

Wooden tools could be re hafted and when their life was finished brushes and their natural fibre bristles just got eaten by fungi.

You are correct, 

Globally, 

about 6% of oil is used for plastics, which is a small portion compared to the 87% used for transport, heating, and electricity. In 2019, this amounted to 9 million barrels of oil per day, but projections show this demand could increase significantly. While plastics are made from oil and gas feedstocks, some alternatives like bio-based plastics use renewable resources. 

[GarethM]

21 minutes ago, sime42 said:

I'm thinking of the bigger picture Davey. You should do the same occasionally. I thought I was fairly obviously talking globally. The UK is hardly known for it's plastics production industry is it? So no, I wasn't presenting you with an opportunity to hyjack yet another decent thread to push one of your tedious agendas. Keep up.

 

Global plastic talks collapse as countries remain deeply divided

WWW.BBC.CO.UK

---

The latest round of UN-led talks have ended in deadlock, with disputes over plastic production and recycling.

 

As if we're going to recycle our way out of this hole. Is that what you believe? I don't. Obviously the oil states are going to try to protect their revenues.

Right, so in your utopia we stopped using plastic tomorrow morning 9am.

 

What do we do with it all, don't you dare say recycle as that's just fluffy language.

 

Dig up all the waste dumps and incinerate, as that plastic takes what a million years to just turn into yet more micro plastic and chemical wastes!.

[sime42]

14 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

I wonder, I would expect plastics to be a small part of oil use.

 

OTOH I like wood based things. The firm I first harvested for made brush heads, cotton reels (who can remember making  little machines to race with from a wooden cotton reels, lolly stick, rubber band and a disc cut from a candle?) , divan bed legs and other things I cannot remember. He said his sales dropped when the price of oil was low and firms like Addis could undercut him. 

 

Wooden tools could be re hafted and when their life was finished brushes and their natural fibre bristles just got eaten by fungi.

 

 

<I wonder, I would expect plastics to be a small part of oil use.> - I think you'll be surprised. And as I say, as it'll grow as fuel usage for oil declines.
 

Wood is an absolute wonder material when you think about it. It has so many diverse properties and uses. It can be grown, cut, planed, smoothed, polished, screwed, nailed, glued, bent, laminated, burnt ..............

It's almost infinitely repairable. And when it's reached the end of its useful life it's just good fungi, plant and micro organism food. 

 

Plastic on the other hand. It's always frustrating when a plastic thing breaks, it's generally very hard, normally impossible, to repair so just ends up as waste. With a half life of hundreds or thousands of years. But, it does readily breakdown enough to release toxic micro fibres and particles. Oh, and it's also full of other chemicals just itching to leach out. It's lovely stuff. 

 

People are discovering/developing fungi that can devour plastic, but I doubt it'll ever be enough to address the problem.

 

 

[Mark Bolam]

The fungi will get Alzheimer’s and forget how to do it though.

[Johnsond]

19 minutes ago, sime42 said:

Wood is an absolute wonder material when you think about it. It has so many diverse properties and uses. It can be grown, cut, planed, smoothed, polished, screwed, nailed, glued, bent, laminated, burnt ..............

No shit 42, I think everyone on here gets that don’t you 🤷‍♂️so “ no need”. 

[Steven P]

36 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

 Shit stirring for the sake of it will do no one any favours. 

 

[Steven P]

Jumping back on topic for a moment, for which I do apologise. 

 

Back of my mind from last time around. The issue with the wood burners are the fine particulates in the soot, not carbon and so on. These are like what comes out of diesel exhaust fumes, get into the lungs and that causes the problems. Greater issues in towns of course - as mentioned above, the once a year fires on Christmas day using petrol station 'dry' logs that have sat in the rain for the last 6 months, waiting.

 

So more efficient combustion means there are few fine particles up the chimney. If I remember right from a couple of years ago when the Tories wanted to do the same, it is more of an issue now that car exhausts are cleaner, catalytic converters, and electric cars where the combustion is a long way from towns in the power stations, that the wood smoke particles are becoming more significant in the mix. Not more than there were 10 years ago, just everything else is reducing.

 

With micro plastics, once in the body we don't know what will happen with them but we have had centuries of experience with smoky fires.

 

 

 

Digression to the topic, but micro plastics... every plastic thing that wears out leaves micro plastics. I wonder how long the world would clean itself though, for example this generation of fish consume great numbers, die, fall to the sea bed taking the plastics with them, gets buried with sand. Same with us, we consume them, die, get stuck in a hole somewhere and they are buried. So if we fixed the problem today even if they have a 'half life' of a thousand year a good portion might be under ground by then... though what cost to wildlife between now and then?

Edited 17 minutes ago by Steven P

[Johnsond]

24 minutes ago, Steven P said:

 

I'm thinking of the bigger picture Davey. You should do the same occasionally. I thought I was fairly obviously talking globally. The UK is hardly known for it's plastics production industry is it? So no, I wasn't presenting you with an opportunity to hyjack yet another decent thread to push one of your tedious agendas. Keep up.

 

 

AI alert!

No need. Pretty sure we all know the ins and outs of burning wood. Given the forum, and even the thread title.

 

 

 

You forgot to clip those in SP. 
As for hijacking a thread, it started off about wood burners and ended up in global plastic pollution 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️did I complain ??. 
Shit stirring just like the below comment at the start of your post. 
 

“which I do apologise”

Anyway seeing as it’s been dragged down to the normal level, don’t you in reality burn imported coal SP rather than wood ?.  I’ll not hold my breath for an answer. 

Edited 7 minutes ago by Johnsond