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S211 notice in Kirklees


jonrob
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Hi everyone,

 

I've been discussing my recent experiences with this local authority on other forums, and it has been a very interesting experience. So I thought I'd start share them on here too.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

Note: Sorry about the formatting - I copied and pasted the text below and it looked ok before, it's gone a bit weird here and I don't know how to sort it out yet.

 

Cheers,

 

John

 

My colleague received this today in response to a S211 notice,

 

"The S211 notice submitted cannot be registered as it does not meet the requirements of the Planning Practice Guidance and we are therefore returning your notice.

 

Please re-submit your notice with more information if you wish it to be registered. The notice must include whether you are acting as an agent, and in which case on whose behalf, and please provide a full name and address. If acting as landowner please provide evidence of your ownership or legal interest in the land where the trees are situated."

 

To give you context the S211 notice was as follows;

 

"Good morning,

This is an S211 notification of intention to undertake works to a tree in a conservation area.

The tree is located at xxxx and is labelled as T1 on the attached map.

 
The tree is a weeping ash which is going to be removed because it has advanced ash die-back disease.
 
Kind regards,
 
xxxx"
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We have to complete a form on the planing portal which is then submitted to my local council, all the information you haven't put in your letter is needed.

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There is no where in any writing that says you have to use a form for a 211 notice..... its just some councils want their arsed whiped .

 

I basically put what tree and works, address, client and contact number and send it in via email.

 

For some councils I do send in a form which they wrongly request.... but don't argue with plonkers and all.....

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There is no where in any writing that says you have to use a form for a 211 notice..... its just some councils want their arsed whiped .
 
I basically put what tree and works, address, client and contact number and send it in via email.
 
For some councils I do send in a form which they wrongly request.... but don't argue with plonkers and all.....


I fill out the form as I always have, they have a form because then it cuts down on issues like the one the thread is about. It's not really a case of the council wanting their arse wiping 🫣If the council are having to send emails out asking for this and that completing then it wastes time. I do find it funny that people don't like authority or the systems they put in place to do a job more efficiently which then saves time and money.
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If 

14 hours ago, jonrob said:

Hi everyone,

 

I've been discussing my recent experiences with this local authority on other forums, and it has been a very interesting experience. So I thought I'd start share them on here too.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

Note: Sorry about the formatting - I copied and pasted the text below and it looked ok before, it's gone a bit weird here and I don't know how to sort it out yet.

 

Cheers,

 

John

 

My colleague received this today in response to a S211 notice,

 

"The S211 notice submitted cannot be registered as it does not meet the requirements of the Planning Practice Guidance and we are therefore returning your notice.

 

Please re-submit your notice with more information if you wish it to be registered. The notice must include whether you are acting as an agent, and in which case on whose behalf, and please provide a full name and address. If acting as landowner please provide evidence of your ownership or legal interest in the land where the trees are situated."

 

To give you context the S211 notice was as follows;

 

"Good morning,

This is an S211 notification of intention to undertake works to a tree in a conservation area.

The tree is located at xxxx and is labelled as T1 on the attached map.

 
The tree is a weeping ash which is going to be removed because it has advanced ash die-back disease.
 
Kind regards,
 
xxxx"

if you are happy that your notice contains all that is required, and you have a record of it, just ignore the further requests - they are irrelevant. Notice has been served. 
 

It’s probably a validation clerk being over zealous / poorly informed. 
 

That said - as Hodge says, use the portal and it’s simples!

Edited by kevinjohnsonmbe
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If you send the notification in by email then they basically have to enter it in to the planning portal to get it on the public record with everything else, so there will be a clerk trying to answer exactly the same questions as if you filled the online form.

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Nah sorry your notice is lacking a lot of info I would say, certainly wouldn't get away with just sending that in my areas of work. The planning portal is simple (once you have done a few apps). Takes 10-15 max and you have to address every question thus meaning you will not get responses like you have leading to delays etc.

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PPG and primary legislation says nothing about there being any need to provide evidence that I'm owner/agent or whatever... All that's required is sufficient particulars to identify the tree.

 

So I think we can just get on with the work.

 

We've had similar problems in the past, it went straight to a 3rd stage complaint (missing out stages 1 and 2) and we were told that we were right - backed up by a recent decision on someone else's land by the ombudsmen. Bizarrely, nothing has changed though.

 

It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) to prove—

(a)that he served notice of his intention to do the act in question (with sufficient particulars to identify the tree) on the local planning authority in whose area the tree is or was situated; and

(b)that he did the act in question—

(i)with the consent of the local planning authority in whose area the tree is or was situated, or

(ii)after the expiry of the period of six weeks from the date of the notice but before the expiry of the period of two years from that date.

 

What form should a section 211 notice take?

A section 211 notice does not have to be in any particular form. It may be helpful to use the standard application form for work to trees protected by an Order (available from the Planning Portal) as a section 211 notice, but the authority cannot insist on this.

 

What information should be in a section 211 notice?

A section 211 notice must describe the work proposed and include sufficient particulars to identify the tree or trees. Where a number of trees or operations are involved, it should make clear what work is proposed to which tree. A notice must include the date it is submitted. A plan is not mandatory but can be helpful.

Sufficient information in a section 211 notice will help the local authority to verify that the proposed work, if undertaken, has not been exceeded and support enforcement action if appropriate. People should not submit a section 211 notice until they are in a position to present clear proposals. They should consider first discussing their ideas with an arboriculturist or the authority’s tree officer.

 

 

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With respect, I would agree that the 211 was a bit light, and it would probably be less time consuming to go through the planning portal (10 minutes) than to become embroiled in correspondence with the Council even if you do believe you are correct. I'm all for having principles but life's just too short sometimes. Otherwise I'd spend half my life arguing with people!

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22 hours ago, Western Star said:

With respect, I would agree that the 211 was a bit light, and it would probably be less time consuming to go through the planning portal (10 minutes) than to become embroiled in correspondence with the Council even if you do believe you are correct. I'm all for having principles but life's just too short sometimes. Otherwise I'd spend half my life arguing with people!

Oh no you wouldn’t 😂

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