Wages for employees

[swinny]

48 minutes ago, Mick Dempsey said:

It’s important that you and @eggsarascal understand, we don’t give a shit what you think.

Not even a tiny bit.

Bang on there 👏 😀 

[Richard 1234]

20 minutes ago, briscoe said:

If employed yes. Many do supply teaching which is just turn up for a few days . Rates are not dissimilar to Arb and they are 3 year degree qualified compared with someone with NPTC tickets which take a few days to achieve. 

 

Classroom Teachers Pay Scale

Annual Pay Daily Pay

Min M1 £25,714 £131.87

M2 £27,600 £141.54

M3 £29,664 £152.13 M4 £31,778 £162.97 M5 £34,100 £174.88 Max M6 £36,961 £189.55 Min U1 £38,690 £198.41 U2 £40,124 £205.77

I know all about the pay scales. Not a game to be starting now with the pension being changed. That and the pay scales being made very difficult to progress through. At least comparatively to 20 years ago. Also worth about £10k less than they should be due to years of no pay rise or 1%

[swinny]

One thing for sure is its a funny old world at the moment... has been for a couple of years. 

 

People need to cut back where possible and live within their means. It's a struggle for all on all levels I would have thought. 

[trigger_andy]

2 minutes ago, briscoe said:

Sounds good - there is money in arb/timber if you set up yourself. Are you still concerned about £100 for someone to turn up with a saw and help a tree surgery business?

Money to be made hand over fist. I’d almost give up the off-shore game to do it full time. But then I can orchestrate a lot of it from a laptop sitting on my arse off-shore. Come home, knock out a week or two in the 4-6 weeks I’ve got off milling where making £350-£400 for 2-3 hours work a day is not unusual. 
 

Paying someone in this game £100 a day is just pure greed. So yeh, I’m still concerned.
 

 

[JaySmith]

I wouldn’t want to get into the actual £s in each bracket you’ve punted there Jay. 
 
What I would observe though is that I’d consider the differential between the brackets is too narrow to properly recognise and reward the varying levels of experience / expertise between the brackets. 

You will always get people who will be on more than the numbers I’ve ‘punted’ there. There will be guys who are paid more because they bring more to the party such as fixing kit, running complex jobs, go quoting, undertaking surveying etc the list is endless because of the variables involved. The aim was to give the OP a guide for the area I’m in, I’ve got three mates who all run their own firms and these are the rates they are paying.

[spuddog0507]

3 hours ago, Mark Bolam said:

It’s definitely not just arb Doug.

 

Totally agree with you 100% here, and i know some will shoot me down on m next comment , 

But may be if the average British employed worker, had actually done some work when they went to work instead of skiving we may still of had our great British engineering empire that we once had and lead the world in for many many years, No british trucks built any more no British Leyland car manufacturing, all trains built over seas, even a poxy metal footbridge for going across the river in a small local village had to be made in Germany, where the F - - k did it all go wrong,,,

[rapalaman]

Agreed on some of those points too - so many mates were boasting of skiving off, sleeping on night shifts, skimming off their employer’s etc.

however at British Leyland, whether the workers grafted or not, the products were generally pretty crap! Just think of the Allegro, Maxi, Marina, Rovers and Triumphs - so many poorly designed, badly engineered heaps that the workers didn’t really have a future. Add in all the strikes in the 70s and the writing was on the wall for a long while

[briscoe]

12 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

Money to be made hand over fist. I’d almost give up the off-shore game to do it full time. But then I can orchestrate a lot of it from a laptop sitting on my arse off-shore. Come home, knock out a week or two in the 4-6 weeks I’ve got off milling where making £350-£400 for 2-3 hours work a day is not unusual. 
 

Paying someone in this game £100 a day is just pure greed. So yeh, I’m still concerned.
 

 

Milling timber certainly sounds different to general arb at those rates.  For me £400 would be for myself and worker for a 6-8hr day. I make £300 for day and worker £100. I need to cover quoting, running equipment, wage etc. Market forces that rate and plenty will work for it. I don't think its greedy to pay a worker £100. Likewise I dont think its greedy making a profit on your finished timber. It is what it is and you shouldn't worry about it.  Milling does sound lucrative but I guess it needs very expensive equipment?

[Puffingbilly413]

I would say most of the rates discussed here sound familiar.  And regional variation will have a huge say - in the same way that a 4 bed detatched house in rural Scotland wouldn't even buy you a 1 bed flat in other parts of the country.

What I don't think has been touched on (it might have been but didn't see it) it what will the client pay?  It's all very well calling (justifiably) for better wages for tree work but if clients can find someone that undercuts the firms that pay their staff well then those better paying firms will start to lose work.  Granted it's not quite as simple as that as reputation and quality of work will count for a lot.

The average extra cost over and above the basic wage for an employed member of staff seems to be about £2k a year just including employers NI and pension for someone on around £19k a year.  That doesn't include sick pay, paid holidays and paternity/maternity pay - or providing PPE and training etc.

Plus there's the entrepreneurial risk.  Employers have to finance the firm, find the work, ensure they meet all the various regs etc, probs employ office staff unless they're really small.

Interestingly a trained soldier in the UK starts on around the same money, although the salary progression is much better.

FWIW - I don't employ staff but climbers are £180-220 a day, more if bringing their own bigger kit etc.  Groundies absolute bare minimum is £100 but more if they know the job. 

 

As long as I have people's rates in my head when quoting for a job then within reason it doesn't matter - their rate plus a mark up goes on the job.

Back to the OP's question - I wouldn't employ staff as it's too much hassle, too expensive and oh, too much hassle.

[Doug Tait]

55 minutes ago, trigger_andy said:

I am set up myself. Have my own wee budding business that’s building rather nicely. I pay my brother £200 a day for general milling and firewood production. He can easily mill £1000 of timber for me in that day. I take the orders, he does the milling when I’m otherwise occupied, I get the wife to do the books. Second easiest game I’ve ever been in. 

Is he not doing as much of the lucrative building work at the moment?

 

I don't follow why you mock the concept of arb workers having job satisfaction but claim to have it in spades yourself.

 

Incidentally, there's a couple of young lads at work that came to arb from supermarket delivery jobs. They probably earn slightly less for now, but their work is rewarding, less stressful, healthier, and they claim to be enjoying life much more.

Loving what they do is a big deal to some folk Andy.