Jump to content

Log in or register to remove this advert

stove size and using an inline fan


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, drinksloe said:

Alright

 

Just looking for some advice, i'm in the process of renovating an old house and need to choose the stove for heating it.

So many questions

1 hour ago, drinksloe said:

 

 

Also the house is often empty for 12+ hours a day even at wknds usually out and about outside, so realistically fire will rarely be on for more than 4 hrs at a time..

This is one situation where underfloor heating  is not such a good idea as there is a long delay between putting the heat into the slab and the radiant heat from the slab becoming comfortable, similarly it continues giving out heat after you no longer need it. I am a great fan  of it but even though this house is occupied much of the time the expense of ripping up the floors is not justified as the warm air from a single woodburner heats the house.

1 hour ago, drinksloe said:

 

Wot i was thinking was to keep the UFH turned down a bit ( i struggle to see the point/sense in heating an empty house to normal warm room temps) and use a larger log burner to provide the extra heat when we get in at night.

Say step up to an 11kw or something

This makes sense but I cannot see the need for such a large stove, also you will need to provide a dedicated combustion air supply.

1 hour ago, drinksloe said:

 

Would that be too hot for the room??

I would think so but then I live in sunny Surrey  and Scotland is a bit wetter and colder.

 

Why not consider a stove with a back boiler and link that in to the under floor pipes or a few radiators?

1 hour ago, drinksloe said:

 

My other daft idea which is another reason for a larger stove is to install a a flue pipe above it say attached to a 6" insluted flue pipe with an inline fan and suck the hot air away from the stove and fire it down to the far side of the house.

Some of these inline fans are blowing 5 or 6 times more than ur normal bathroom explair air extractor fan, really a hear recovery system on steroids with no fancy heat exchangers etc.

Not something I'm keen on as mentioned in another post.

1 hour ago, drinksloe said:

 

Would that work??

Most folk i've spoke to reckon it won't but never give a reason why, but i struggle to see why it won't. Ur just sucking hot air from 1 pace and moving it 10m and blowing it out there, seems so simple i don't know why more folk haven't tried it

I can mind as a kid my aunt had 1 of those hot air central heating systems, i'm sure they were'nt very effecient, but i'm just wanting to mov the excess heat already made.

 

Hot air systems do work but wet radiators are the norm here, The advantage of warm air is that it heats up quickly and is the norm in much of America, though I never experienced it there (it was 38C in the shade when I was there)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Log in or register to remove this advert

Fire with a back boiler on a zone pump is a good shout i rekon, and that would also allow you to go with a lesser kw branded stove (as mentioned 8kw verses a chinese 11kw) for optimum efficiency but with enough heat generated that you won’t be cooking like a chicken on a spit sat in close proximity to it either, and the added bonus also that with it being an 8kw (if thats your preference) it wont need fuelling as often as an 11kw so reducing your wood usage too, win win!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cheers so far

 

Must admit the wax thing seemed a clever idea on the stove, i always mind 1 of those alsakan programmes and 1 bloke lined his greenhouses with bottles of water, water would take heat in throu day and keep greenhouses warmer at night, said it made a big difference in the spring and late summer there

 

I think my hot air idea has been mis understood, i'm only moving the hot room air from the ceiling just as u would with an extractor fan in a toilet/above the cooker except instead of exiting out the wall externally i was hoping to move the warm air to the far side of the house throu a pipe/duct in the loft. Many of these inline fans are moving 500m3 an hour, that would be 3 times the air in that room

Not touching anything to do with the chimney flue.

 

Most folk i speak to with log burners say there great but after a few hours the room is far too hot so i was hoping to move that extra hot air elsewhere in the house and use the stove to top up the heat from the UFH.

And thats where my experience is the oppisate to most but i fully appreciate it could most likely be because of the cheap stoves

 

Aye i will be putting a direct air kit in to feed the stove direct from outside, which ever size i go for.

 

I could of put radiators in, very little difference in money nowadays between the 2, but i thought if in the future i have to go down a heat pump route u really want UFH rather than radiators.

I realise i'm not using the UFH quite the way its intended but my thinking is if say my ideal room temp is 24c ( for example) if i used the UFH to keep it at a steady 15C i can easy top up with the log burner, and will be using a lot less LPG keeping the house at the lower temp for 24hrs.

And if well insulated will heat up quickly anyway and keep the heat.

 

But to be honest the way i see it 15C is a half decent summers day up here so cant see the house being that much warmer,.

But wot ever the final temp is using the UFH more as a base heat and topping up with the log burner hence my thinking i should go for a slightly larger log burner so i can have a quick big burn rather than a smaller stove that runs all day or u would if the UFH was providing the full heat

 

 

I originally planned on connecting the log burner to a thermal store etc, but too many drawbacks with the system with the layout of the house. (single story, fire at 1 end all plumbing almost at other tight for space for thermal stores, no place for a heat loss radiator)

Quite a few plumbers i asked said it is quite hard to plumb a log burner to do UFH from a log burner, which being honest i don't really understand, surely it doesnt really matter how the thermal store is heated as long as it is heated, but im not a plumber

Main drawback was price and space but another major factor was most back boiler stoves can't be used in a power cut, had 3 power cuts the last month with longest for almost 5 days, while that was extreme i do live in an area with trees everywhere.

I did try quite hard to get the water of the stove but just couldn't make it work with the size and layout of the house

Must admit i do find it ironic how complicated modern heating systems are when u see an old back boiler behind a fire all convection with no pumps involved

 

Just to add i'm going for a clearview stove this time its just the size is only the question.

Only bought cheap stoves in the past as for a temp fix in a static while i done the house up

 

Edited by drinksloe
Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

Even so with the little manifolds I made to blow warm (40C) air into the adjacent room it has meant I have used no other space heating this year yet and the room with the stove is less hot, more comfortable.

I have a small cabin and this is how I transfer heat from the living space to the bedroom. 👍

 

Like I said the I just happened to have watched the vid 10 mins before the OP posted and although it's a bit ' McIver ' as they say over there it used to be common here to circulate warm air for heating albeit without creating a fire risk, one of my friends still has the vents in his  floors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regards your power outages at times, could you not put a 12v pump in-line to run off a deep cycle battery for when your in the shit? You say your not running the stove for more than 4hrs or so on a night, you could have some leisure batteries on standby for if the inevitable happens and would do your needs no problems for a few days easy. Just put a diverter loop in your pipe work with some on/off valves to divert from your every day 240v pump to 12v pump when required. Very simple. And presumably you’d have a generator for such occasions for a few tools/kettle etc when your desperate [emoji6] genny would run ya pumps 240v or 12v if you were mega desperate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With the house design i'd end up losing a bedroom to make way for the thermal store etc, despite having 1 massive room the rest of the house is very tight and quite small rooms really

 

Just not really vaible, or far more hassle than it was worth.

The ammount of extra it would cost would buy an awful lot of LPG.

 

Plus that was another issue with me being out the house for so long would 4hrs heat up enough water in the thermal store to run the UFH in a cold snap.for the other 18hrs

And u still need to put an additional heating method in for during the summer months.

 

It was well looked into with having all this firewood but just far too many problems for this house just couldn't get it to stack up.

Could be different in other houses but in this occasion was just a non starter, 

The RHI boiler plus tank was 14k and thats for a 2 bed house and that was priced 5 years ago, just silly money, doing away with it has given me an extra small bedroom.

 

A combi boiler will suit my hot water needs far better, just trying to minimise the costs for heating and use as much firewood as i can.

IN my last house which wasn't paticularly well insulated my heating was only ever on for 3-4 months a year

 

Too far down the line now with building warrants etc to change now anyway just trying to get the best out wot i have to go with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, drinksloe said:

 

I think my hot air idea has been mis understood, i'm only moving the hot room air from the ceiling just as u would with an extractor fan in a toilet/above the cooker except instead of exiting out the wall externally i was hoping to move the warm air to the far side of the house throu a pipe/duct in the loft. Many of these inline fans are moving 500m3 an hour, that would be 3 times the air in that room

Not touching anything to do with the chimney flue.

I tried just ducting air from the room the stove was in into the other room via a 6" pipe and it didn't have much effect whereas connecting two 2" pipes directly from the stove convection vents to the next room about 10ft through a wall and under the stairs is very effective, although the fan noise is a tad annoying.

manifold3.thumb.jpeg.297db597dd9cdedd78522c096b39fae7.jpeg

1 hour ago, drinksloe said:

 

 

Quite a few plumbers i asked said it is quite hard to plumb a log burner to do UFH from a log burner, which being honest i don't really understand, surely it doesnt really matter how the thermal store is heated as long as it is heated, but im not a plumber

You are confusing me with mentioning a thermal store, if you have underfloor heating then there is no need for a water filled thermal store because the concrete slab the plastic pipes run through acts as a heat store. Also your LPG stove burns gas at 2000C to heat water to ~90C and this is still too hot to  go into the pipes in the floor slab, so a manifold blends this down such that water going into the slab is no more than ~40C and it leaves the slabs say about 25C whence it returns to the boiler. In principle there is no reason the heat from a back boiler cannot be plumbed in at this return point (but the back boiler will need a waxstat on it to prevent the cold water making it too cold). It will need a plate heat exchanger to keep the two flows separated as the combi will be pressurised and the wood boiler will need to be vented in case of a circulating pump failure and will need a feed and expansion tank somewhere vertically above the wood boiler.

1 hour ago, drinksloe said:

Main drawback was price and space but another major factor was most back boiler stoves can't be used in a power cut, had 3 power cuts the last month with longest for almost 5 days, while that was extreme i do live in an area with trees everywhere.

Yes it can as long as it cannot boil dry but a plain wood stove with no back boiler is cheaper and simpler.

 

36 minutes ago, drinksloe said:

With the house design i'd end up losing a bedroom to make way for the thermal store etc, despite having 1 massive room the rest of the house is very tight and quite small rooms really

 

Just not really vaible, or far more hassle than it was worth.

The ammount of extra it would cost would buy an awful lot of LPG.

Yes thermal stores are for systems that burn in daily batches and need lots of extras to get the heat out of them, maybe good for blocks of flats or hotels but not so much for homes.

36 minutes ago, drinksloe said:

 

A combi boiler will suit my hot water needs far better, just trying to minimise the costs for heating and use as much firewood as i can.

IN my last house which wasn't paticularly well insulated my heating was only ever on for 3-4 months a year

 

Too far down the line now with building warrants etc to change now anyway just trying to get the best out wot i have to go with.

It does sound as if a simple stove is likely to be best for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, drinksloe said:

 

 

Just to add i'm going for a clearview stove this time its just the size is only the question.

Only bought cheap stoves in the past as for a temp fix in a static while i done the house up

 As of next year newly manufactured stove have to conform to eco design 2022 specs.

The last time I enquired, not that long ago, Clearview didnt have one meeting that criteria unless they were holding back for some reason but you wont go wrong if you can pick an original model up because they are superb.

 

Not sure I buy into the heating wax idea unless the stove is overkill for the room size because the heat taken to warm it slows the warm up of the room. It gives it back when the stove goes out so I  guess you choose whether to have the heat at the beginning or after you've gone to bed.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think i have overcomplicated the question with detail.

There is absoltley no chance of me plumbing the stove in to hot water system far too far down the line now with planning and building warrants/inspectors

 

Would a stove 2.5kw more than reccommended make a room 50m2 ( or 150m3) which is a big room with 4 big windows too hot? Even if only on for 3 to 4 hours or so a day?

To me it doesn't seem a massive amount more in such a big room

But my experience is only with cheap stoves not performing very well in a draughty caravan and my dog kennel so

 

My 2nd question is similar to wot u have done above Openspace, i was planning on having an inlet vent in the ceiling above log burner connected to a decent sized inline fan to suck the hot air above the log burner and blow it to the far side of the house throu insulated ducting in the loft.

These inline fans are often blowing/sucking around 500m3 of air an hour so 5 times more than a normal bathroom fan.

Must admit i'm not even sure if i can put this fan thing in till after i get the completion certificate inspector may not like any hill billy fixes/ideas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share


  •  

  • Featured Adverts

About

Arbtalk.co.uk is a hub for the arboriculture industry in the UK.  
If you're just starting out and you need business, equipment, tech or training support you're in the right place.  If you've done it, made it, got a van load of oily t-shirts and have decided to give something back by sharing your knowledge or wisdom,  then you're welcome too.
If you would like to contribute to making this industry more effective and safe then welcome.
Just like a living tree, it'll always be a work in progress.
Please have a look around, sign up, share and contribute the best you have.

See you inside.

The Arbtalk Team

Follow us

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.