Would you fit a biomass boiler without the RHI?

[openspaceman]

1 hour ago, Baldbloke said:

Sounds a bit like electric cars with diesel generators.

and why not?

[Watercourse management]

Are these figures correct in reality, hence the other thread.

Also I run a Gilles 125kw wood chip boiler using our own chip from our work, great boiler picked it up secondhand after the rhi changed for basically scrap value.

[Canal Navvy]

12 hours ago, Macpherson said:

 

 

 

When I recently looked at the subject it was the complicated control systems that I quickly realised that I don't have a hope of understanding and wouldn't want to have to depend on others for maintenance.

 

 

 

I would say that the control systems are definitely the weak part of complex integrated energy installations. 

 

So far we are at the point that all the parts can communicate with each other but they don't know what they should be doing. It still seems to have to be told what to do by an interested human who also happens to be organised. I'd imagine that in time self-learning control systems will get good enough to guess when the likely power demands and inputs are in the day.

 

As it is an unfortunately large proportion of owners of wood burning stoves seem incapable or disinterested in learning to use them efficiently, so I see little chance for anything more complex 😒

 

Most of the time our energy distribution networks have become spectacularly good so people are inclined to go into renewables with a very high expectation 😉

Edited December 20, 2021 by Canal Navvy

[openspaceman]

14 hours ago, Macpherson said:

Firstly how do you do that @ baldbloke thing 😃

 

Yours and agg's conversation was way over my head, I am considering solar and batteries in the spring but maybe just for a lot of 12v lighting at first or perhaps with inverter of limited emergency power.

When I recently looked at the subject it was the complicated control systems that I quickly realised that I don't have a hope of understanding and wouldn't want to have to depend on others for maintenance.

In the spring I will probably contact my nearest installer for advice and possibly a survey. cheers.

 

 

I understand a bit about electricity and electronics but couldn't actually design a system, hence I went for an off the peg solution but see below

1 hour ago, Canal Navvy said:

I would say that the control systems are definitely the weak part of complex integrated energy installations. 

 

So far we are at the point that all the parts can communicate with each other but they don't know what they should be doing. It still seems to have to be told what to do by an interested human who also happens to be organised. I'd imagine that in time self-learning control systems will get good enough to guess when the likely power demands and inputs are in the day.

You are so right, the system I have is not well integrated because the grid is needed to energise the system and itself can vary in Hz and voltage, the PV panels depend on the sunlight and the inverter-battery system cannot communicate with the grid or directly with the panels, so it senses current on the various inputs and there is a delay which on poor days results in anomalies where the grid charges the battery or the PV exports to grid. Overall it should deliver 80% of my electricity needs and I suspect if you could still get the installation below £10k it would give a return without any feed in tariff, especially if electricity reaches 30p/kWh.

 

I have a gripe with Growatt in that it is web based and apparently hosted in China plus the App is highly intrusive and I will not have it on my phone. Also there is some oriental fuzzy logic going on and I, for now, cannot prevent it charging the battery from the grid, this would be a good thing if I had an off peak electricity tariff but I don't. I guess the 300Wh it charges itself will reduces to 2400Wh when I get it back.

 

I think one could save £2k by building the battery and management system with LiPo cells and only have to integrate PV and battery.

[Baldbloke]

I would say that the control systems are definitely the weak part of complex integrated energy installations. 
 
So far we are at the point that all the parts can communicate with each other but they don't know what they should be doing. It still seems to have to be told what to do by an interested human who also happens to be organised. I'd imagine that in time self-learning control systems will get good enough to guess when the likely power demands and inputs are in the day.
 
As it is an unfortunately large proportion of owners of wood burning stoves seem incapable or disinterested in learning to use them efficiently, so I see little chance for anything more complex [emoji19]
 
Most of the time our energy distribution networks have become spectacularly good so people are inclined to go into renewables with a very high expectation [emoji6]

Good point on the controls for multiple heat/wind etc. although I have plenty of ways to use up our generation and heat, it still requires manual input to either turn valves or throw switches to get the best out of it.
I should have also said previously that the biomass boiler and associated install has been 100% reliable over the last 8 years,- unlike the temperamental wind turbine[emoji849]

[RobInNorfolk]

On 09/12/2021 at 18:25, david lawrence said:

How about a ceramic heat store type stove

no electric required esp nice after 10 day power cut we have had 

i think there are some people building them on site or ready made ones available

cornish stove company ?

 

On 09/12/2021 at 18:47, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

That’s interesting- hadn’t seen that before, just had quick look at webpage. 

Happy to discuss experiences of cornish masonry stove if anyone interested. Generally a nice gentle heat but it doesn't throw out that much and you don't a feeling of radiant heat unless you're near the glass. Fuller review available by PM!

[MattyF]

I'm still hoping for some input from those truly off grid and having generators to pop by with some experiences and costs on that thread, I'll be thinking of @Baldbloke's 20kW  and 50 MWh annual production to compare with my £10k panels and battery when I revisit some of @agg221's points

Don't do it if your off grid, from experience.... too much energy to utilise the pumps and fans 24/7 on a biomass boiler through winter.