Red diesel availability?

[aspenarb]

It’s all a few months away so I will get clarification and ask the question in the new year, let’s  see what they come back with. I still think it’s a nonissue , if there is to be a fuel surcharge so be it. The difference in cost between the two fuels on a typical site clearance job would be negligible. They are tweaking the rules as we speak, leisure craft can send off the duty for fuel used for propulsion or heating, can’t remember which. There may well be the same sort of concession drawn up for ag/forestry involved with construction, it won’t be practicable to drain tanks between jobs that are or aren’t involved in construction. This is where the NFU and FCA should be actively doing their stuff.

 

Bob

[LGP Eddie]

You’ve not seen the official guidance that actually said if you’ve machinery that will have to run on both Red and White at times and will involve a lot of flushing tanks/filters, you should consider purchasing additional machinery solely to use Red!!

 

Honestly you could beat these bastards with a piece of blue water pipe until you got bored or your arm fell off!!

 

 

[Canal Navvy]

So once we are flushing tanks and changing filters after using duty rebated will the delivery tankers carry on having just the one meter and delivery hose ? 🤔

[LGP Eddie]

2 minutes ago, Canal Navvy said:

So once we are flushing tanks and changing filters after using duty rebated will the delivery tankers carry on having just the one meter and delivery hose ? 🤔

If I have Red in and the site requires White it’s got to come out, and in theory you should do the Filters.

 

The other way around you can suck the White out to save it clean, or just crack on and put Red in and contaminate it, the Filters won’t matter that way around.

 

As I said before, I can’t guarantee any client it’s not going to have some contamination.

 

I don’t make this shite up and Bob makes a brilliant point, seemingly nobody has got organised to push back against any of it being implemented.

[donnk]

6 hours ago, LGP Eddie said:

It may be a big deal when they dip all your kit doing the clearance work running on Red, and you’re trying to prove it’s not a Construction project, and claiming it’s Arb or Forestry.

If it genuinely isn’t Construction they can pay you gross with VAT outside of CIS no problem.

I’m pointing it out because it’s reared it’s head for the first time ever for me this year, and now on the increase rapidly.

As I explained it’s no issue to me the whole Red Diesel scenario apart from the theft/damage issues.

Clients will have to supply their own fuel (nearly all do anyway) and they choose what fuel to put in it.

Default is Red, if you want White you pay for the filter change and tank drain, and I have no way of ensuring that it may not be slightly contaminated.

 

 

I also know a few smaller outfits who’ve been caught real bad by clients who only announce it’s reverse VAT and CIS after the jobs been done, and they’re not setup for it.

 

Put your invoice in and find they’re not giving you the VAT you’re asking for and another 20% off the invoice as well on top.

What you’ve planned for coming back in is an awful lot less.

Yes it all works itself out, but you’ve no VAT coming in so to speak, but have to keep shelling it out on everything you buy.

 

 

reverse vat can actually help your cashflow as you will get the vat back before the customer has paid. Register for monthly vat returns, submit the return by 3rd and you will have the VAT in the account (or net) by the 11th.

 

CIS, you can register to be paid gross if you have a decent payment record with HMRC

 

 

[LGP Eddie]

19 minutes ago, donnk said:

reverse vat can actually help your cashflow as you will get the vat back before the customer has paid. Register for monthly vat returns, submit the return by 3rd and you will have the VAT in the account (or net) by the 11th.

 

CIS, you can register to be paid gross if you have a decent payment record with HMRC

 

 

Both just cans of worms nobody wants to get involved with.

 

 

It is however certain to be evidence if you’re paid this way, that indicates you should be running White diesel on such projects.

 

 

[maybelateron]

43 minutes ago, donnk said:

CIS, you can register to be paid gross if you have a decent payment record with HMRC

Yes, very true. I have done this in the past, but have now given up nearly all commercial work.

[DanHorrich87]

7 hours ago, aspenarb said:

 

I can understand your concerns Eddie, the way I see it is development companies own vast swages of farm/wood land all over the country. Irrespective of who owns it this land is still farmed, grazed and crops taken from it up until they decide to develop it, we have looked after some parcels of land for developers for over fifteen years. I cant see there being a problem at these early stages, I can understand issues arising from site visits during construction. The new reverse VAT and CIS I don't see as a problem and have lived with it for a long time now.

 

Bob

Delicate question:

I'm not a member of the Arb Assoc so can't comment on their outward facing organisational presence. The NFU is well known for its serious lobbying influence.

 

Rebated fuel used to be about productive value like growing food, catching fish or building houses and obviously forestry.

 

Farm subsidies for land ownership are being phased out in favour of rural enterprise, diversification, stewardship, countryside grants and other funds. This means landowners will by supplimented by DEFRA for keeping the landscape picturesque as well as environmentally sustainable, ecologically beneficial etc not for working the land in a productive sense.

 

A farmer's side order of bread'n'butter will soon no longer be offered to offset turbulent or unpredictable market prices for the meat and tatties he provides us.

 

I work in woodlands so diesel cost is a factor for winning contracts. This means I'll be looking for lobbying power to represent my needs and others like me to DEFRA. Or is the proposed level playing field meant to squeeze out the little guys? I guess its wait and see.

Meanwhile,

Does the Arb Assoc have good teeth?

[donnk]

they want us all to be electric which is fair enough but the tech isnt there yet for vans, lorries, diggers etc. Not to mention no method to charge iun the middle of fields etc.

 

If the same rules apply to everyone just put the prices up.

[dumper]

1 hour ago, DanHorrich87 said:

Delicate question:

I'm not a member of the Arb Assoc so can't comment on their outward facing organisational presence. The NFU is well known for its serious lobbying influence.

 

Rebated fuel used to be about productive value like growing food, catching fish or building houses and obviously forestry.

 

Farm subsidies for land ownership are being phased out in favour of rural enterprise, diversification, stewardship, countryside grants and other funds. This means landowners will by supplimented by DEFRA for keeping the landscape picturesque as well as environmentally sustainable, ecologically beneficial etc not for working the land in a productive sense.

 

A farmer's side order of bread'n'butter will soon no longer be offered to offset turbulent or unpredictable market prices for the meat and tatties he provides us.

 

I work in woodlands so diesel cost is a factor for winning contracts. This means I'll be looking for lobbying power to represent my needs and others like me to DEFRA. Or is the proposed level playing field meant to squeeze out the little guys? I guess its wait and see.

Meanwhile,

Does the Arb Assoc have good teeth?

Teeth!!! they just roll over and agree