Red diesel availability?

[LGP Eddie]

 

17 minutes ago, aspenarb said:

We run all our kit and timber to and from site on a lorry, we are normally first in on any development site and insist on sole possession. They all accept that we are Forestry and run on FMOC tickets, it only becomes a "site" as far as we are concerned when we hand it over. Certainly no construction going on at that point.

 

Bob

That’s how I’d love it to stay!!

 

Once they’ve got you on the CIS and Reverse VAT, try saying it’s not a Construction project then when they dip you and find Red Diesel!

 

I’m letting my clients decide what fuel they put in, if they think it’s Forestry and fill it with Red, then they won’t be stopping me Reverse VAT or under CIS?

 

Can’t have it both ways.

Edited December 5, 2021 by LGP Eddie

[swinny]

4 minutes ago, aspenarb said:

We run all our kit and timber to and from site on a lorry, we are normally first in on any development site and insist on sole possession. They all accept that we are Forestry and run on FMOC tickets, it only becomes a "site" as far as we are concerned when we hand it over. Certainly no construction going on at that point.

 

Bob

Yes... I did type something to reply to Eddie  but cancelled it. It was more about chicken and egg scenarios....

 

What was land registered as before? 

 

Industrial or agri green belt....?

 

If industrial then yes maybe have to use White? 

 

If agri then no red.... 

 

Like you say its no site or development till we've been in. First on the scene like you say. 

[swinny]

1 minute ago, LGP Eddie said:

A quick google threw this one up, all 

That’s how I’d love it to stay!!

 

Once they’ve got you on the CIS and Reverse VAT, try saying it’s not a Construction project then when they dip you and find Red Diesel!

 

I’m letting my clients decide what fuel they put in, if they think it’s Forestry and fill it with Red, then they won’t be stopping me Reverse VAT or under CIS?

 

Can’t have it both ways.

I'm glad I keep away from these type works.... I dont work for construction  firms or partake in cis scheme thank fully. 

 

I'm rural based, agri forestry conservation and safety works more than clear fell site works. 

 

It's a shame I'll forget all this if I'm ever pulled lol 😆 

 

[LGP Eddie]

Just now, swinny said:

I'm glad I keep away from these type works.... I dont work for construction  firms or partake in cis scheme thank fully. 

 

I'm rural based, agri forestry conservation and safety works more than clear fell site works. 

 

It's a shame I'll forget all this if I'm ever pulled lol 😆 

 

CIS and Reverse VAT is coming out of the woodwork on all sorts of projects as things tighten on Clients side.

 

I would think it extremely difficult to justify running Red if you’re paid in this way.

 

I’m just letting my own clients make the decision what fuel they want as they’re paying for it anyway.

 

Last one from me, it’ll just run forever, but here’s just one example of a CPCS, LGV Tractor Driver.

 

4 months ago there were ads everywhere, but slowing now until spring no doubt.

 

Some won’t be charging that for a Tractor and man!

 

Eddie.

 

 

 

[IronMike]

Looks like I stirred up a bit of a good discussion by reviving this thread!

 

From a purely selfish view, I think it's fair to say I am safe using red diesel going forward. And in all honesty, I hardly use a drop compared to folks running big ol tractors etc. The Logbullet is a very frugal workhouse!

 

However, I do feel very sorry for those who fall into the grey area. Especially when those in the knowledge at the sharp end of things, can see what's being done correctly and who are taking the piss. Shame it'll all be decided by some office bound bellend who has no clue what they're talking about....

 

 

[aspenarb]

Is CIS and reverse VAT that big a deal? The reverse VAT is no real problem and any employee PAYE deductions can offset monetary losses to CIS.

 

Bob

Edited December 6, 2021 by aspenarb
because Bob had a brain fart

[LGP Eddie]

6 minutes ago, aspenarb said:

Is CIS and reverse VAT that big a deal? The reverse VAT is no real problem and any employee PAYE deductions can offset monetary losses to CIS.

 

Bob

It may be a big deal when they dip all your kit doing the clearance work running on Red, and you’re trying to prove it’s not a Construction project, and claiming it’s Arb or Forestry.

If it genuinely isn’t Construction they can pay you gross with VAT outside of CIS no problem.

I’m pointing it out because it’s reared it’s head for the first time ever for me this year, and now on the increase rapidly.

As I explained it’s no issue to me the whole Red Diesel scenario apart from the theft/damage issues.

Clients will have to supply their own fuel (nearly all do anyway) and they choose what fuel to put in it.

Default is Red, if you want White you pay for the filter change and tank drain, and I have no way of ensuring that it may not be slightly contaminated.

 

 

I also know a few smaller outfits who’ve been caught real bad by clients who only announce it’s reverse VAT and CIS after the jobs been done, and they’re not setup for it.

 

Put your invoice in and find they’re not giving you the VAT you’re asking for and another 20% off the invoice as well on top.

What you’ve planned for coming back in is an awful lot less.

Yes it all works itself out, but you’ve no VAT coming in so to speak, but have to keep shelling it out on everything you buy.

 

 

[aspenarb]

17 minutes ago, LGP Eddie said:

It may be a big deal when they dip all your kit doing the clearance work running on Red, and you’re trying to prove it’s not a Construction project, and claiming it’s Arb or Forestry.

If it genuinely isn’t Construction they can pay you gross with VAT outside of CIS no problem.

I’m pointing it out because it’s reared it’s head for the first time ever for me this year, and now on the increase rapidly.

 

 

 

 

I can understand your concerns Eddie, the way I see it is development companies own vast swages of farm/wood land all over the country. Irrespective of who owns it this land is still farmed, grazed and crops taken from it up until they decide to develop it, we have looked after some parcels of land for developers for over fifteen years. I cant see there being a problem at these early stages, I can understand issues arising from site visits during construction. The new reverse VAT and CIS I don't see as a problem and have lived with it for a long time now.

 

Bob

[LGP Eddie]

27 minutes ago, aspenarb said:

 

I can understand your concerns Eddie, the way I see it is development companies own vast swages of farm/wood land all over the country. Irrespective of who owns it this land is still farmed, grazed and crops taken from it up until they decide to develop it, we have looked after some parcels of land for developers for over fifteen years. I cant see there being a problem at these early stages, I can understand issues arising from site visits during construction. The new reverse VAT and CIS I don't see as a problem and have lived with it for a long time now.

 

Bob

I think you’re perhaps a lot bigger concern than many Bob and can ride out cashflow easier than some.

 

It’s a diesel debate and my only reason to reference the CIS and VAT is the fact it’s establishes a clear link that the work is Construction if the payment falls under the CIS scheme.

 

If they dip you using all the machines on Red and you’re paid through CIS, it’s certainly almost impossible to argue the work isn’t part of a Construction scheme and you should have used White.

 

I certainly don’t want any of it, I just want to offer clients a good service, deliver the work and get paid everything I’m due without chunks coming off it!

 

 

Eddie.

Edited December 6, 2021 by LGP Eddie

[donnk]

14 hours ago, aspenarb said:

We run all our kit and timber to and from site on a lorry, we are normally first in on any development site and insist on sole possession. They all accept that we are Forestry and run on FMOC tickets, it only becomes a "site" as far as we are concerned when we hand it over. Certainly no construction going on at that point.

 

Bob

what you are doing is construction though, enabling works. You wouldn't be on that site otherwise.