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Day rates when things go wrong..

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40 minutes ago, topchippyles said:

Totally josh which is why a lot of the lads have mentioned they avoid it where possible. Day rate is used in construction a lot so different to arb work. Big J uses guys on hourly rates i believe but then that is cutters in forestry work. 

I do. 

 

I don't like day rates as it seems like a payment for attendance, rather than work done. If I'm on hourly on the forwarder, I almost never stop. Doing days for the National Trust over winter on hourly, I took two 15 minute breaks for food over a usually 8-9hr day. If I'm working for myself, on my own time, I'm much more relaxed. It's my time I'm wasting then.

 

Also, given that I usually ask for longer days than most (07:30 to 17:00 is standard), it seems only fair to pay for that extra time.

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I take it on board that a day rate over a fixed period time doesn't equate to a day rate.

I don't know many freelance climbers who have an hourly rate.

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On 06/06/2021 at 21:07, Mark J said:

I take it on board that a day rate over a fixed period time doesn't equate to a day rate.

I don't know many freelance climbers who have an hourly rate.

 

Not that I'm in ARB, but if u were on by hour as a freelancer if u knock work out early, which is often the case u would be losing half a day's pay quite often with very little chance of fitting in jobs off ur own as I'll never know wot is planned for u n advance.

So impossible to line up any other jobs in advance

 

In my area most forestry cutters are just on a day rate, if u speak to a new prospective employer they usually ask how much for the day and how long it usually is.

Bit different with forestry hand cutting as usually plenty of work to fill ur day in, not that often u run out of trees. 

But it does happen, finish an edge/steep slope early and not worth walking to next trees, but most harvester drivers don't mind u leaving early occasionally just as u stay on to finish jobs some nights and never charge extra.

Bloody hell I worked to 7.30 1 Fri nite and never charged any extra, swings and roundabouts.

But in reality hour Vs day rate won't matter to much as ur day rate will just be ur usual day length multiplied by hour rate. If doing longer days ur day rate will be higher.

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Quoting days rates are, and always have been, frought with pitfalls, and are invariably a set of dice loaded heavily in the customers favour.
And the old chestnut of offers of plenty of future work if you don’t charge too much should be seen as an insult to your intelligence as this is what they say to all contractors who they think has mug tattooed on their forehead.

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I have quoted day rates on a number of jobs where work can be changeable, and eveytime it's worked in my favour. 

 

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I have a number of large trees at my place which are beyond my ability to access. Sometimes I need work done (need because they need reducing/removing to avoid damage to something else).

 

I have a steady supply of work at the rate of a couple of days a year. It does not all want doing at once - it can be spread over months/years.

 

I have had a day-rate arrangement with several people (who may still be on here). They climb and cut, I drag brash and feed it through the chipper. If they have a chipper and include it in the day then that's great, otherwise I hire one. They fit in days as they are mutually convenient. A job price would not work because the requirements are constantly evolving. They get to fill in time, I get a clear figure and can prioritise.

 

From experience, day rates do require you to define what a day is. It also requires defining what happens if it doesn't work out as planned - when I am hiring a person plus the chipper, what if it breaks down? What if that is because I feed it a house brick (no, I am not that stupid)? Basically, a day rate relies on either a lot of contractual paperwork to cover all eventualities, or mutual trust. So far, the latter has worked for several parties, but we are both careful who we choose.

 

Alec

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17 minutes ago, agg221 said:

I have a number of large trees at my place which are beyond my ability to access. Sometimes I need work done (need because they need reducing/removing to avoid damage to something else).

 

I have a steady supply of work at the rate of a couple of days a year. It does not all want doing at once - it can be spread over months/years.

 

I have had a day-rate arrangement with several people (who may still be on here). They climb and cut, I drag brash and feed it through the chipper. If they have a chipper and include it in the day then that's great, otherwise I hire one. They fit in days as they are mutually convenient. A job price would not work because the requirements are constantly evolving. They get to fill in time, I get a clear figure and can prioritise.

 

From experience, day rates do require you to define what a day is. It also requires defining what happens if it doesn't work out as planned - when I am hiring a person plus the chipper, what if it breaks down? What if that is because I feed it a house brick (no, I am not that stupid)? Basically, a day rate relies on either a lot of contractual paperwork to cover all eventualities, or mutual trust. So far, the latter has worked for several parties, but we are both careful who we choose.

 

Alec

Plain common sense alec from both sides.

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