Traffic control or not?

[maybelateron]

Yesterday on our way to a job we passed another local tree firm at work. They were taking the top of a very tall roadside Lime. The road a was a busy A road, and the work site was in the angle created by the A road and its junction 20 metres away with a crossroads. It was a 30 limit.

Their only attempt at traffic control was their Transit tipper and chipper and a few cones round the drop zone, which was the pavement and one lane of the road.

Oh yes, and a men at work sign (no tree cutting logo) right by each end of the drop zone. No advance warning signs, no footway closed signs. No traffic lights, not even stop go boards. 

We all felt very angry at such a cavalier attitude to safety. If the customer wouldn't pay for the proper traffic management costs I would have declined the job.

Your thoughts, ladies and gentlemen?

[nepia]

Not worth the risk.  All fine (from the operators' point of view) until there's a head-on beside their truck; then - oops.

[woody paul]

43 minutes ago, maybelateron said:

If the customer wouldn't pay for the proper traffic management costs I would have declined the job

That’s probably how they got the job. 

[JaySmith]

Which TM to use is dictated by the traffic flow of the road, speed and sight lines. It may have been the case that you could have done with the job with just traditional TM, ie signs, cones and lane narrows etc rather than lights but either way what they have used sounds largely inadequate! To play by the letter of the law you should have someone with supervisor and operative chapter 8 as well as an abundance of tapping rails, signs, cones etc etc but then that’s a different story!

[maybelateron]

1 hour ago, JaySmith said:

It may have been the case that you could have done with the job with just traditional TM, ie signs, cones and lane narrows etc rather than lights but either way what they have used sounds largely inadequate!

Yes, that is quite true. However, this was was a no brainer situation. Busy A road into a city, bend just before crossroads, pelican crossing as well. We recently had a similar traffic situation to manage (via TM firm) and the TM cost was just under £1,300 inc VAT. We got the job despite this added cost. Would not have dreamt of doing it without proper TM.

 

[JaySmith]

Yes, that is quite true. However, this was was a no brainer situation. Busy A road into a city, bend just before crossroads, pelican crossing as well. We recently had a similar traffic situation to manage (via TM firm) and the TM cost was just under £1,300 inc VAT. We got the job despite this added cost. Would not have dreamt of doing it without proper TM.
 

Sure, obviously I don’t know the road so difficult to comment with certainty. From what you’ve said there it sounds like you did need full on TM. At least when you hire a TM crew the responsibility is passed to them from that respect leaving you to crack on with the treework. The whole TM thing is a minefield as to actually do it 100% correctly you’d need another truck following you around full with various signs, cones, barriers etc

[Chipperclown]

These situations are pretty simple from what you describe, TM required. It's tempting not to include this to win a job but in the end it's stupid not to do so. I have just looked at a Willow tree on a bend of an A road myself. I told the customer that TM was needed and she just couldn't understand why it was cost what it cost and why it is even needed first place. Basically I just left as soon as I could without trying to be rude.

 

Ps this tree was just hit and damaged by a bus and the police were called to deal with the mess, hence the call.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Chipperclown

[maybelateron]

Yes, I have looked at a job in our village today. Mainly woody shrub clearance, with the easier extraction route  up onto the A road, 60 mph limit, near a bend and T junction. Customer also wanting some trees/branches overhanging the road cutting back/down.

I tried to explain that TM was needed but I could see his eyes glassing over at the thought of extra cost. Fine, get some pillock in who will risk other people's lives/safety. Count me out on this one if that is your approach.

See attached photo of trees over road.

 

Rant over

 

PS There are also lots of decent customers out there that we don't whinge about!

[Pete Mctree]

If a customer is not willing to pay for TM  then I am not interested in working for them. It for our safety in the end- I give them a quote for the treework & a separate quote for the TM which has to be paid prior to commencement. We are too weak as an industry when it comes to such things. 

[Mick Dempsey]

Back in the 90s you used to be able to hire the set, lights, genny, cones and signs and set it up yourself, pretty much anywhere you liked, no questions asked.
Led to some pretty hairy worksites.

I still do a bit of road work, but only easy, low traffic stuff.

 

As has been said, if they won’t pay, don’t do it.