Have the definitive regulations regarding firewood?

[dudders]

1 hour ago, Chalgravesteve said:

 "Please sign this form, where you lie to protect me, for which you gain no other benefit from the lie other than a pile of wood which is probably greater than 20% MC" (as otherwise you wouldn't need to worry about the little form).

 

 

Maybe read the post.  The buyer's 'Statement Of Determination as to Use' (the form) (aka SOD U), will show the MC of the load, as verified in front of him by a meter.  Be pretty stupid to be selling it at over 20%?

[Chalgravesteve]

4 hours ago, dudders said:

Maybe read the post.  The buyer's 'Statement Of Determination as to Use' (the form) (aka SOD U), will show the MC of the load, as verified in front of him by a meter.  Be pretty stupid to be selling it at over 20%?

But this is my point! If you are selling it as a product under 20% MC then get it registered and sell loads of it in whatever quantity you want to, to whoever you want without having to get any bogus forms out to justify why you sold it!

 

I can't fathom why you want to spend so much time and energy (which costs you money!) doing something on EVERY single sale in order to possibly avoid a bit of legislation which if you are selling wood at under 20%MC you actually comply with!! 

 

Each to his own, I suppose.

[renewablejohn]

11 minutes ago, Chalgravesteve said:

But this is my point! If you are selling it as a product under 20% MC then get it registered and sell loads of it in whatever quantity you want to, to whoever you want without having to get any bogus forms out to justify why you sold it!

 

I can't fathom why you want to spend so much time and energy (which costs you money!) doing something on EVERY single sale in order to possibly avoid a bit of legislation which if you are selling wood at under 20%MC you actually comply with!! 

 

Each to his own, I suppose.

Really. Do you not have any competition.  Even if it only cost 1k and you make 10 pounds on every cube you sell thats 100 cube working for nothing before your starting to make money again. Then a customer complains that the dry wood you delivered below 20% MC is actually more than 20% because its been stored in a damp garage but the mafia inspector visits the customer and confirms its over 20% then you have penalties on top. Even before this garbage I had customers trying it on as I was one of the few who guaranteed all my wood was less than 20%. What they did not realise was I kept a sample of each batch sent out so could easily quash their claims.

[Chalgravesteve]

6 minutes ago, renewablejohn said:

Really. Do you not have any competition.  Even if it only cost 1k and you make 10 pounds on every cube you sell thats 100 cube working for nothing before your starting to make money again. Then a customer complains that the dry wood you delivered below 20% MC is actually more than 20% because its been stored in a damp garage but the mafia inspector visits the customer and confirms its over 20% then you have penalties on top. Even before this garbage I had customers trying it on as I was one of the few who guaranteed all my wood was less than 20%. What they did not realise was I kept a sample of each batch sent out so could easily quash their claims.

Yes I have competition. But every single business has fixed and variable overheads. Rent and rates, staff costs, equipment and plant, fuel, insurance, LOLER compliance testing, Ready to Burn Accreditation, delivery vehicle, bank charges, admin costs, computers, website hosting, website maintenance, online gateway and merchant services, phones, etc etc etc.

 

Fuel costs, for delivery and production of product  have probably increased by far more than the cost of the Ready to Burn accreditation. 

 

 

 

[TuscanPhil]

On 22/01/2022 at 16:03, gdh said:

There is talk of a simplified version for small self suppliers but I haven't seen it confirmed.

 

If that's not an option this is what I'm looking at now...

@gdh, Where did you get that group of files from?  Is it downloadable from the internet or did you have to apply for it?   I've been on the BSL, Woodsure and Readytoburn web pages and apart from a single application form on the Woodsure website, I can't find much info.  I'm a self-supplier so unless things change, it looks like I'm going to have to certify to myself that my wood is good for me to burn - which I already know it is as it is all air seasoned for between 18-24 months (and I have a cheapy moisture meter 🤣 to confirm this).  Looks like it could cost me between 5 and 10% of my RHI payments from a quick calc, so not the worst news, but it is still money going out for no good reason - a tax on carbon efficient fuel.

Edited January 24, 2022 by TuscanPhil
typo

[renewablejohn]

18 minutes ago, Chalgravesteve said:

Yes I have competition. But every single business has fixed and variable overheads. Rent and rates, staff costs, equipment and plant, fuel, insurance, LOLER compliance testing, Ready to Burn Accreditation, delivery vehicle, bank charges, admin costs, computers, website hosting, website maintenance, online gateway and merchant services, phones, etc etc etc.

 

Fuel costs, for delivery and production of product  have probably increased by far more than the cost of the Ready to Burn accreditation. 

 

 

 

You have no competition if you can sell logs at 180 m3. Around here your lucky to get 100 m3 for kiln dried logs.

[gdh]

2 minutes ago, TuscanPhil said:

@gdh, Where did you get that group of files from?  Is it downloadable from the internet or did you have to apply for it?   I've been on the BSL, Woodsure and Readytoburn web pages and apart from a single application form on the Woodsure website, I can't find much info.  I'm a self-supplier so unless things change, it looks like I'm going to have to certify to myself that my wood is good for me to burn - which I already know it is as it is all air seasoned for between 18-14 months (and I have a cheapy moisture meter 🤣 to confirm this).  Looks like it could cost me between 5 and 10% of my RHI payments from a quick calc, so not the worst news, but it is still money going out for no good reason - a tax on carbon efficient fuel.

It's under fuel manual templates here https://woodsure.co.uk/how-to-apply/

 

Good news (possibly) is they've just added an option for self suppliers to that page.

[Gardenscape]

On 14/01/2022 at 09:04, Chalgravesteve said:

Surely, anyone with any common sense will understand that when you are trying to "manipulate" a rule in order to not comply with it, then you know that you are breaking it. The world seems to be full of people who think that rules/laws should not apply to them. Novak Djokovic, Boris, Dominic Cummings, John87, etc etc 

 

I don't agree with the requirement to register for Ready to Burn. My stuff is ALWAYS well under 20% MC, I've invested a lot of money in kilns and boilers and machinery to process, shift and deliver firewood. I know that my product will stand up to any scrutiny and test to determine it is under 20% MC, but the law now says it has to be registered, so despite the fact that I know I comply anyway, I'm now registered. In the great scheme of things, there are much more higher cost elements of firewood production than a registration for RTB. 

 

No mate, the world is full of people like you who just obey and accept daft rules thought up by clowns. If you want to comply with these rules then so be it, but don't look badly on people who don't want to because they aren't mugs. And your comparison to people like a PM is ridiculous.  And this is coming from someone who uses kilns to dry wood. As far as I am aware, kilns use fossil fuels to operate. You're creating pollution to dry wood to then burn. Your logic is idiotic. It's far more sustainable to source wood locally that has been processed locally and dried naturally.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Gardenscape

[TuscanPhil]

I've just gone through the registration process to see what they are after - and it looks like it will cost £54 for the initial application - as to whether there is a annual recertification (likely) and what charge that would be...who knows...  

 

As part of the process I have to upload a quality manual and if I don't have one, they will email me a template of one that I can use (currently under construction!!!!!!)  So I don't have to do anything until they do something it now means.  I think I can stomach £54 and a few forms to enable me to get the RHI.

 

I should have said - I will be leaving it until the very last minute and certainly won't be signing up unless I absolutely have to.

Edited January 24, 2022 by TuscanPhil
clarification

[Haironyourchest]

I think he 

2 minutes ago, Gardenscape said:

No mate, the world is full of people like you who just obey and accept daft rules thought up by clowns. If you want to comply with these rules then so be it, but don't look badly on people who don't want to because they aren't mugs. And your comparison to people like a PM is ridiculous.  And this is coming from someone who uses kilns to dry wood. As far as I am aware, kilns use fossil fuels to operate. You're creating pollution to dry wood to then burn. You logic is idiotic. It's far more sustainable to source wood locally that has been processed locally and dried naturally.

I think he said he heats the kilns with wood burners...to be fair.

 

But yeah, **************** the rules. Embracing stupid rules leads society to totalitarianism, look at Oz. "Rules mate, rules!" The mindset is part of a cultural death spiral. Disregard for any and all rules also leads to disaster. It's a matter of using reason.