Jump to content

Log in or register to remove this advert

paradigm shift wanted


dadio
 Share

do you agree with the premise of this video that the teachings in the subject arborpod video are overly and unnecessarily cautious  

14 members have voted

  1. 1. do you agree with teh premise of this video that the teachings in this video are overly and unnecessarily cautious

  2. 2. Would you ever use a hand saw to finish this cut

  3. 3. is it necessary to make an undercut on dead stubs like the one shown in this video

    • yes
    • no
    • of course not, that was ridiculous


Recommended Posts

Log in or register to remove this advert

On 05/02/2020 at 08:03, Steve Bullman said:

Training videos are meant to show the best practise for doing anything. I don't believe any 'educator' with an ounce of common sense is going to divert from these things. Its up to individuals to find their way through on the job experience in the field.

I can relate this this. I'm a certified training instructor and rater in the job I do. When I get round to holding a class some of the guys on the course are guys that work with me off-shore. Im very careful to ensure that the training I give them are per procedure. Sometimes they moan and complain that this is not how its done off-shore, or even how I do it off-shore. :D I tell them that regardless how I do the job off-shore Im here to teach them the 100% correct way we should be doing things, it will then be up to them how the carry out the job when off-shore. But if they screw up they cant turn around and tell anyone thats how I trained them on the course. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

if the space is a bit tight and i'm concerned the limb will drop too quickly for me to get the chainsaw out of the way so as to avoid cutting the rigging line the YES i will use a silky to finish the cut as i can withdraw that in a more controlled and swifter manner. It's all to easy to nick ropes with a chainsaw or silky so i do my best in every situation so as to avoid it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 06/02/2020 at 06:53, wicklamulla said:

if the space is a bit tight and i'm concerned the limb will drop too quickly for me to get the chainsaw out of the way so as to avoid cutting the rigging line the YES i will use a silky to finish the cut as i can withdraw that in a more controlled and swifter manner. It's all to easy to nick ropes with a chainsaw or silky so i do my best in every situation so as to avoid it. 

That's where good cutting technique and goor rigging come together. If you use a rip cut (no gob or undercut) then the piece is going to come off real slowly and give plenty of warning as the fibers begin to tear. Also the placement of the overhead rigging point helps if it is a bit off the stem. This was demonstrated in a large stub in the video.

 

I think it's not too much to expect a higher level of expertise to be shared in training videos. There are a lot of variables to consider in tree work. Using the least common denominator (this cut works in all situations) maybe the easiest and safest way to provide training, but it results in a sub-par product. A more complete description of more variables would serve the industry. There is very little explanation of "why". Instead we get teachers saying do it this way and an industry full of teachers and trainers that parrot the teachings without understanding the "Why". Then its up to the individual to figure the rest out by himself. 
 

 

We can debate the reasons for such poor quality training material in the tree care industry. Is it because they don't really understand the distinctions necessary to provide a better product, or they don't care, as there is limited competition and they are doing just fine with such poor products, or is it simply a matter of trying to avoid liability. Who knows. BUt I can tell you one thing. There is not ONE person teaching college courses on arboriculture that has the skill and ability of a world class climber/rigger/faller. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This video both demonstrates and explains the combined use of the rip cut (into the shoulder leaving NO STUBS) with well placed overhead rigging point and tie off points on the limb getting lowered. Do you think Arbomaster, the ISA or any other training organization has or will ever show this type of work. I'd call it technical except its actually far more simple than the teachings of undercuts, wing cuts, and finishing with the hand saw. 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

im not sure just back cutting limbs is " next higher level techniques"!! 

sure i do it and it works on certain stuff, but i wouldnt recomend it to a learner as there are a lot of variables that are hard to explain.

also cutting from a bucket truck and climbing are different in terms of proximeter of the piece being cut.

every tree worker starts to deviate and experiment from what they were taught on courses.

 i learn something every day i go to work, so kind of hard to put all that into a short course.

i think your a bit harsh and rude regarding the level of skill in trainers, !!! does your driving instructor need to be and ex world rally champion????

slagging others to promote oneself is always a dubious approach imo.

still ive watched plenty of your vids and learnt and enjoyed them.

carl

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

why are they hard to explain?

 

If your lanyard or climbing line is under the cut, use an undercut. If the limb has a rise of over 35 degrees, it can split and lift, similar to a barber chair, and potentially come down on you, so use an undercut. If the limb is long and heavy enough to split, it can pinch the bar, so use an undercut. Species that split easily are more prone to split during a rip cut, so adjust your cutting technique accordingly. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 07/02/2020 at 14:02, dadio said:

BUt I can tell you one thing. There is not ONE person teaching college courses on arboriculture that has the skill and ability of a world class climber/rigger/faller. 

A lazy generalisation and quite frankly, a load of shit. I can list individuals who are multiple world champion climbers and teach advanced Arboriculture practice here in the UK.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was taught to straight cut through in rigging if the conditions suited at merrist wood back in 95 so it is or was taught in British Arb colleges.. to be fair I think at that time it was renowned for being one of the best colleges for arboriculture in the world and had some very good staff.

I think also straight through cuts where in the original nptcs for arial cutting so it’s nothing new say us brits ... or the old ones anyway!

 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share


  •  

  • Featured Adverts

About

Arbtalk.co.uk is a hub for the arboriculture industry in the UK.  
If you're just starting out and you need business, equipment, tech or training support you're in the right place.  If you've done it, made it, got a van load of oily t-shirts and have decided to give something back by sharing your knowledge or wisdom,  then you're welcome too.
If you would like to contribute to making this industry more effective and safe then welcome.
Just like a living tree, it'll always be a work in progress.
Please have a look around, sign up, share and contribute the best you have.

See you inside.

The Arbtalk Team

Follow us

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.