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eggsarascal
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19 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

They cannot fix it any more than they can fix the current problem simply because it is the result of a poor government policy  decision over 30 years ago.

A gentle way of making the point I was going to make when people started suggesting the government could fix the problems. Governments created these problems and have consistently made them worse. Why would you trust them to fix them?

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21 minutes ago, eggsarascal said:

Just remind me who did away with council housing and the building of new council houses whilst tendering all the remedial work out to contractors that made a fortune out of the contracts. Also could you explain how the councils could release land, (at least around here) that  private developers bought up, or have owned for years and have sat on for years waiting for the price of land to go up.

That would be your hated Maggie.

and yes they could release land. Open more land. By that I mean grant planning permission on more land than is needed. The price would drop through the floor. If the developers round you that own the land don’t want to build for its new price they don’t have to. They don’t own all of the land.....

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I remember watching a programme about Liverpool Council's "Grand Vision" for replacing swathes of Victorian era terraced streets, which resulted in long-standing families being almost forcible re-housed in grim modern blocks of flats "but only temporarily", for years and years and years, while their former family homes sat in limbo.

Simply the typical poor result of "decision by committee", and as portrayed by the TV programme, deeply unedifying.

From a N Ireland perspective Mrs. Thatcher's right to buy scheme was driven by the staggering cost, inefficiency and corruption of our NI wide Housing Executive, unfortunately the nett result was that HE corruption was merely replaced by even more efficient private sector corruption, with the very same paramilitary organisations each controlling agreed areas divided up on sectarian grounds.

By the way during, I guess the 60's and 70's, when the HE were building new "Council" housing stock, they were staggeringly grandiose withe their swathes of landscaping, resulting in very low housing density, and probably counter productive to the natural formation of new communities.

Big "J" wife would be better placed to comment on this aspect of social or urban planning, but my simple observation of swathes of poorly cut grass, litter, broken trees and burned out cars was hardly a positive one, I suppose one could say these markedly large open areas were effectively "no mans land" and would have been better covered in medium density low-rise housing stock.

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9 hours ago, Stere said:

Maybe the minimum  wage should be alot  higher?

 

Problem is housing is so unaffordable so goverment has to pay people rents to private landlords who are are making billions from housing benefit

 

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

Amount is nearly double what was paid 10 years ago according to National Housing Federation study

 

So i for an answer too the original question,,,,

 

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

Who are the real scroungers? Free-marketeers decry 'big government' yet the City and big business benefit hugely...

 

 

bang on not enough housing.

 

Too many people here is why, deport 100,000 a week until the prices comes down. Start with the 50.2% who are net spongers on the state.

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9 hours ago, Stere said:

Off course in a pure captalist system the low wage workers would just sleep in the street or illegal slum shacks like in India or many other third world countries without  welfare systems.

Yes, capitalism has been the first system that mimics human evolution, it builds on previously created exploitation of all resources and leads to economic growth. This is how people can gain vast wealth without resorting to warfare.

 

Unchecked it means the devil takes the hindmost, it also means the also rans are simply exploited and then discarded when they no longer contribute.

 

My question is where are we going that we benefit from unlimited growth, it's plainly not possible to last indefinitely, at some stage we have to sit back and consider how we sustain the planet, population and economy.

 

Given  that pure capitalism is not acceptable to any but the most successful we have created laws to regulate it to enable the bulk of UK dwellers a decent quality of life but it's a complicated system to police.

 

In the meanwhile the people at the top of the pyramid have a propensity to consume resources and pollute to much higher degrees than is good for our environment.

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As I mentioned in the other thread my take on it is its forced socialism. In Socialism everyone (kinda) gets paid the same regardless what job you do. Or is that Communism? Same shit really. So if you're a Street Cleaner, or a  Skilled worker or a doctor you get paid the same regardless what job you do.

 

Now in the UK a Street Cleaner is on minimum wage, a Skilled Worker is on £45k a year and a Doctor is on £60-100k a year. But the Skilled worker and Doctors are repeatedly told to pay their fair share of tax. Which goes up and up every year. These skilled people on a higher, and justified wages are always the whipping boy each and every election, especially in Scotland where where's told to pay a fair share and a small increase each and every time. The Green Eyed voters think 'yeh, its not fair those bastards earn so much! '' So the skilled workers are taxed higher and higher. But those on minimum wage or under whatever the threshold is these days and get Tax Credit, Child Benefit, free School meals, free school music lessons etc etc. Everything the man paying over 40% tax is not entitled to. 

 

So in the end there is an equalizing. The minimum and lower wage guys end up syphoniong off the tax of the Skilled Workers.  Its Socialism with more steps. 

 

Thankfully in Norway socialism is nothing like whats been fostered here in the UK and to a greater extent in Scotland. 

In Norway you pay into your own State Pension. Its capped, but at £10,000 a year (there abouts). Thats your own Pension pot, the more you earn is rewarded. (You have to earn about £100,000 a year to pay in £10,000 a year) Of course everyone gets a State Pension, but its the bare minimum if you pay in the bare minimum. Everyone gets Child Benefit regardless what you earn. So I get £100 a month for each kid. You wanna see a Doctor? Thats £30, each time. (capped somewhere down the line if your constantly there) Same with A&E, its £30, dont pay it seemed like you'd not get seen. Prescriptions are also £30 a pop. The list goes on and on. What we have in Scotland and in the UK seems more and more like a dytopian hell hole version of Socialism, but then Socialism never works anyway, theres only so long you can steal other peoples money and give it to the thankful and ungrateful. 

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9 hours ago, trigger_andy said:

As I mentioned in the other thread my take on it is its forced socialism. In Socialism everyone (kinda) gets paid the same regardless what job you do. Or is that Communism? Same shit really. So if you're a Street Cleaner, or a  Skilled worker or a doctor you get paid the same regardless what job you do.

 

Now in the UK a Street Cleaner is on minimum wage, a Skilled Worker is on £45k a year and a Doctor is on £60-100k a year. But the Skilled worker and Doctors are repeatedly told to pay their fair share of tax. Which goes up and up every year. These skilled people on a higher, and justified wages are always the whipping boy each and every election, especially in Scotland where where's told to pay a fair share and a small increase each and every time. The Green Eyed voters think 'yeh, its not fair those bastards earn so much! '' So the skilled workers are taxed higher and higher. But those on minimum wage or under whatever the threshold is these days and get Tax Credit, Child Benefit, free School meals, free school music lessons etc etc. Everything the man paying over 40% tax is not entitled to. 

 

So in the end there is an equalizing. The minimum and lower wage guys end up syphoniong off the tax of the Skilled Workers.  Its Socialism with more steps. 

 

Thankfully in Norway socialism is nothing like whats been fostered here in the UK and to a greater extent in Scotland. 

In Norway you pay into your own State Pension. Its capped, but at £10,000 a year (there abouts). Thats your own Pension pot, the more you earn is rewarded. (You have to earn about £100,000 a year to pay in £10,000 a year) Of course everyone gets a State Pension, but its the bare minimum if you pay in the bare minimum. Everyone gets Child Benefit regardless what you earn. So I get £100 a month for each kid. You wanna see a Doctor? Thats £30, each time. (capped somewhere down the line if your constantly there) Same with A&E, its £30, dont pay it seemed like you'd not get seen. Prescriptions are also £30 a pop. The list goes on and on. What we have in Scotland and in the UK seems more and more like a dytopian hell hole version of Socialism, but then Socialism never works anyway, theres only so long you can steal other peoples money and give it to the thankful and ungrateful. 

You've got more spin than Alastair Campbell, working tax credits don't put people in low paid jobs on anything like a highly skilled person or a doctor, what it does is put someone on low wages ie the minimum wage of £8 odd/hour on maybe £10/ hour, how does that make everyone equal?

 

Now lets have a look at the other side of the coin, this week I've been working on Acado sites (the company that deliver Waitrose food) up and down the country. On one site between Oxford and Swindon there are 1500 people working a three shift pattern = 4500 people on any given day, let's say they were all on minimum wage and each of them get an extra £2/hour in in work benefits, Acado would be quids in whilst making vast profits. We the tax payer on the other hand...

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You've got more spin than Alastair Campbell, working tax credits don't put people in low paid jobs on anything like a highly skilled person or a doctor, what it does is put someone on low wages ie the minimum wage of £8 odd/hour on maybe £10/ hour, how does that make everyone equal?
 
Now lets have a look at the other side of the coin, this week I've been working on Acado sites (the company that deliver Waitrose food) up and down the country. On one site between Oxford and Swindon there are 1500 people working a three shift pattern = 4500 people on any given day, let's say they were all on minimum wage and each of them get an extra £2/hour in in work benefits, Acado would be quids in whilst making vast profits. We the tax payer on the other hand...


A system that takes 40% of a slightly above average wage to top those up on minimum wage who pay no tax is socialism. It might not be an exact equilibrium but when you add all the other benefits together it’s not hugely off the mark.

I do not wish to fund those that could not be arsed getting an education, be it at Uni, College or an apprenticeship. Thankfully I don’t as I pay my tax in Norway. ?
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1 minute ago, trigger_andy said:

 


A system that takes 40% of a slightly above average wage to top those up on minimum wage who pay no tax is socialism. It might not be an exact equilibrium but when you add all the other benefits together it’s not hugely off the mark.

I do not wish to fund those that could not be arsed getting an education, be it at Uni, College or an apprenticeship. Thankfully I don’t as I pay my tax in Norway. ?

 

That's one way of looking at it, the other way would be to not let companies get away with paying rubbish money while avoiding paying tax and making huge profits. That way we the tax payer wouldn't have to top up wages, Labour have suggested this many times but the Conservatives have said no way. The other thing you've seemed to overlook is who would do the menial jobs if everyone had a great education, foreigners?

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