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Tom D

Two Rope Working Consultation

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I wonder if it's the issue with a fall arrest system being defined differently to a work positioning system in the eyes of HSE? Like you say, according to the regs you need two independent systems not one work positioning and one fall arrest. Maybe it comes down to transitioning? A fall arrest device isn't designed to take the users body weight except in the case of a fall?

 

Disregard that, it's allowed with h&s so must be an industry specific thing. I'd like to know if you find out 👌

Edited by Paddy1000111

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1 hour ago, Jamie Jones said:

I would guess that Honey Brothers could well answer the question and might know all the answers you need. You will need to talk to one of their key technical people.
If it is correct that the ZigZag is not approved for tree work. They will know what actually is.
But the reality is the Whole H&S subject of regulations in the tree industry has been a minefield because we climb on a structure that is not regulated or accountable. That is why we are one of the last industry's to come under the spotlight. 

The zigzag is approved for tree work. It was made for tree work. I’m talking about the ASAP. A fall arrest device designed for Rope access work. Just wanted to clear that up 👍

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4 hours ago, ANK said:

People are also using a loosely tied VT with a hitch climber on a single line that moves with the user like a fall arrest device. But for it move up and down freely the knot has to be so loose it wouldn’t bite unless it was set anyway. So if a climber cut their primary line or had an anchor failure it wouldn’t provide any safety for them anyway. 

Never saw that coming...

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On 06/02/2021 at 19:26, ANK said:

People are also using a loosely tied VT with a hitch climber on a single line that moves with the user like a fall arrest device. But for it move up and down freely the knot has to be so loose it wouldn’t bite unless it was set anyway. So if a climber cut their primary line or had an anchor failure it wouldn’t provide any safety for them anyway. 

Depending on what rope/hitch combo. You can get it to catch and release with relative ease. 
But my knot of choice for some time now has been the knut for both my primary and back up line.

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On 06/02/2021 at 19:26, ANK said:

 

People are also using a loosely tied VT with a hitch climber on a single line that moves with the user like a fall arrest device. But for it move up and down freely the knot has to be so loose it wouldn’t bite unless it was set anyway. So if a climber cut their primary line or had an anchor failure it wouldn’t provide any safety for them anyway. 

 

Hey, if you're concerned enough about it that you feel you have to use a second system, and you're only wanting to tick the box then it seems a good enough solution. Smoke and mirrors like, but I guess it'll get in your way less. 

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Hi, I've not been here for a while, with it not being my industry any more.

 

Regarding ASAPs. I've been using them in the rope access game since they were released. From experience the ASAP lock is much better than the other versions. For work positioning it's much more user friendly (coming from someone who loved using shunts).

 

I see no reason why it wouldn't be a suitable and approved back up. When used with an absorbica and a sternal or dorsal attachment point it complies with the standards as a fall arrest device.

 

I'm sure this has been discussed before but while in trees (and in my current role climbing around truss bridges or when scaffolders use fall arrest lanyards) my big concern is what is below you and what you are likely to hit on the way down, they also become ineffective at lower heights (around 5 or so meters) in a fall factor 2 scenario.

 

 For interest here's a picture of a team of us examining the treetop walkway at Westonbirt Arboretum with some good ASAP practice (the most tree related thing I do at work nowadays) . 

And one of us examining some of the severn tunnel shafts in Sudbrook.

PXL_20210324_155836884.jpg

PXL_20201117_145405119.jpg

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Good to see you back on here Jamie.

 

Question for the floor.

"Is using a Zigzag connected to another Zigzag acceptable as you will be on one place of attachment to the harness?"

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Under IRATA guidelines I'd say no.

It should be 2 independent connections. If the first zigzag or its carabiner were to fail you would have no redundant back up.  Multiple attachments to a central point on a haeness are ok though.

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