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TPO Application time......

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On 25/05/2019 at 11:41, Gary Prentice said:

I'm pretty certain that, in England, a LA can determine after an appeal for non-determination is started and once they have, the appeal stops. Then there is the usual option to appeal the decision or conditions as a new, separate, appeal.

Just revisiting this @Gary Prentice: does the time of 8 weeks for non determination only start after the application is validated?

 

I'm a bit interested as my boss has just tried to make a 211 notification via the planning portal, in fact he gave up and handed it in by letter.

 

He says what it showed was that an application via the portal cannot proceed without a tree report and that has to be by someone with a "qualification". So no point trying to make a notification as it seems to use the same criteria as needed for a TPO application.

 

In a past job I seldom worried about TPOs as we were working on behalf of a statutory undertaking, I'd liaise with the TO and then getb on with the work.

 

My friend says he writes a report and signs it off and it's never queried, he has a BSc in geology.

 

So if the application gets made, is validated and then the report is queried does everything have to go back to day one? Or will the PINS judgement  take no note of a poor reason for the work.

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Im pretty pissed off to be fair, i sent a tpo app in first of april.... they said registered 14th, rang them up and said you had it on the 1st and we shouldnt miss out on 2 weeks. They agreed to back date it to the first. 

 

Letter said decision by 10th june!!!! 10th june comes ran up later that week, they havent even been out to look at the tree yet. 

 

Rang last thurs 11th July and they still havent been out yet. Piss taking sods.

 

any advice? Im annoyed but customer will be seething!

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1 hour ago, openspaceman said:

Just revisiting this @Gary Prentice: does the time of 8 weeks for non determination only start after the application is validated?

 

I'm a bit interested as my boss has just tried to make a 211 notification via the planning portal, in fact he gave up and handed it in by letter.

 

He says what it showed was that an application via the portal cannot proceed without a tree report and that has to be by someone with a "qualification". So no point trying to make a notification as it seems to use the same criteria as needed for a TPO application.

 

In a past job I seldom worried about TPOs as we were working on behalf of a statutory undertaking, I'd liaise with the TO and then getb on with the work.

 

My friend says he writes a report and signs it off and it's never queried, he has a BSc in geology.

 

So if the application gets made, is validated and then the report is queried does everything have to go back to day one? Or will the PINS judgement  take no note of a poor reason for the work.

You can't appeal a S211 to PIN's.

 

The six weeks notification starts on the first full day after the notice is served. If the trees aren't subsequently TPO'd you can undertake the works in your notice once the six-week period expires.

 

When serving an S211 you do not need to provide a report, or justify your proposal. You just need to ensure it is clear which tree(s) your notice relates to, and what you want to do.

 

An application under a TPO will be validated once the council consider it contains sufficient information to determine it. The clock starts on the day the application is validated. You can appeal to PIN's after eight weeks if the council haven't determined the application. PIN's will make their decision on the basis of the information provided to support the application.

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46 minutes ago, EdwardC said:

You can't appeal a S211 to PIN's.

 

The six weeks notification starts on the first full day after the notice is served. If the trees aren't subsequently TPO'd you can undertake the works in your notice once the six-week period expires.

 

When serving an S211 you do not need to provide a report, or justify your proposal. You just need to ensure it is clear which tree(s) your notice relates to, and what you want to do.

 

An application under a TPO will be validated once the council consider it contains sufficient information to determine it. The clock starts on the day the application is validated. You can appeal to PIN's after eight weeks if the council haven't determined the application. PIN's will make their decision on the basis of the information provided to support the application.

Either my writing is poor or your comprehension is.

 

The first point I was  querying is that the applicant (not me the chap I work for occasionally) says the same form is used for notifying work in a conservation area or applying for permission to work on a tree with a preservation order. If so he says you cannot get past the bit which requests an expert report. Which is why  he posted a notification rather than do it online. I haven't tried.

 

The other thing was  pertaining to what qualification is a requirement for a tree report when applying to work on a tree with a preservation order.

 

On the surface it looks like a restrictive practice dreamt up by planners to give jobs for the boys. A tree report by our local TO  with his consultancy hat on starts at £500.

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Get an 'expert' report then. Anyone with a Tech cert or TI Lantra could sign it off. You must know someone? K

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56 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

Either my writing is poor or your comprehension is

Your writing is poor.

 

Be careful which boxes you tick when completing the form.

 

No qualification needed. They need to be an 'appropriate expert'. I'll leave you to define that.

 

Why is giving appropriate arboricultral information to support the application 'a restrictive practice dreamt up by planners to give jobs for the boys'. Surely it's in the applicants interest to put forward the best case possible for whatever it is they want to do, especially if it's going to end up at appeal.

 

It's not unheard of for PIN's to write to Chief Planning Officers to remind them that applicants must state their reasons for the work, and if necessary, provide supporting information. That is because they rely on the applicants information to help determine the appeal.

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12 hours ago, Khriss said:

Get an 'expert' report then. Anyone with a Tech cert or TI Lantra could sign it off. You must know someone? K

No need I'm not applying to do work on a preserved tree, just  musing.

 

I hope Gary is on holiday enjoying himself as he normally makes good replies.

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1 hour ago, openspaceman said:

No need I'm not applying to do work on a preserved tree, just  musing.

 

I hope Gary is on holiday enjoying himself as he normally makes good replies.

I'll call it 80 squid then , fr the technical offer ;) k

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8 hours ago, openspaceman said:

No need I'm not applying to do work on a preserved tree, just  musing.

 

I hope Gary is on holiday enjoying himself as he normally makes good replies.

Why would you want poor replies.

 

Are my replies not good enough, or is it that I just don't understand your musings.

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On 14/07/2019 at 16:46, openspaceman said:

Just revisiting this @Gary Prentice: does the time of 8 weeks for non determination only start after the application  is validated? That's a good question, and an argument that I've had a few times when the LA has taken 2-3 weeks to actually get around to sending a letter out. The way that I read the legislation/blue book/guidelines - it's the date of submission. Otherwise it would become nonsensical if the LA delayed the process by just not validating a TPO App for a number of weeks. 

After one lengthy delay in validating a perfectly sufficient app of mine, along with moving the determination period to match, I asked for the deadline to be set back to suit the date of my original application. After all, it isn't my fault if they take 3-4 weeks to validate. The LA ignored my protest and refused to do so, but determined the application within eight weeks of my submission date anyway, so I didn't get the opportunity to take it to PINs to see what they thought.

 

I'm a bit interested as my boss has just tried to make a 211 notification via the planning portal, in fact he gave up and handed it in by letter. I'm not surprised, I've found it quite difficult myself to get to grips with for 211 notice submissions. The PP sometimes feels that you're using a 'service' to do something that it wasn't really designed for.

 

He says what it showed was that an application via the portal cannot proceed without a tree report and that has to be by someone with a "qualification". So no point trying to make a notification as it seems to use the same criteria as needed for a TPO application. That's quite a common complaint because of the way the programme is set up. I've read that other notifiers simply send a blank page pdf (marked as 'Blank Page') for unnecessary sections that have to be submitted before you're 'allowed' to proceed and work your way through the website.

 

In a past job I seldom worried about TPOs as we were working on behalf of a statutory undertaking, I'd liaise with the TO and then getb on with the work.

 

My friend says he writes a report and signs it off and it's never queried, he has a BSc in geology. :lol:

 

So if the application gets made, is validated and then the report is queried does everything have to go back to day one? Or will the PINS judgement  take no note of a poor reason for the work. The way it should work, for a TPO application, is that initially the LA shouldn't validate the application if the 'reasons for work section, isn't completed i.e the application is incomplete, so theoretically PINs wouldn't accept any subsequent appeal.

As I understand it, the only time when the LA can reasonably expect/demand a report is when the reasons for the work is due to either a claim that the tree is;

  • causing damage  either to underground services or a building due to tree-related subsidence. 
  • Unsafe, where a suitably qualified arboriculturists report is necessary.  I image that if it's so blindingly obvious, to the man on the Clapham Omnibus, that the tree is in imminent danger of failure that sense would prevail that this 'requirement' would be simply put aside as an unreasonable unnecessary additional expense to the tree owner.

 

PS. Sorry for the delay, I took a week of bed-rest convalescing.

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