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Top-handled chainsaws: appropriate use and management


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On 07/03/2019 at 17:25, Bolt said:

I appreciate that few users would want more assessments being penned, but maybe a good starting point would be to come up an assessment that actually covers the use of a top handled saw.

I believe NPTC Unit 308 (CS39) covers it surely?

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Some interesting points here, take for example a situation such as mine, I'm a sole trader, no el. I bring in a se climber to do what I cannot, he invoices me as he was contacted.by me.regarding the job, I then pass on this invoice plus mine to the client (I don't make any extra on the climber, just pass on the cost) I also never expect the climber/s to do anything against their will e.g. go up without spikes or push to finish a job ahead of time.. ie. Im not "telling them what to do" who is liable if he/she has an accident in the tree..?
As you employ him as a labour only sub contractor you legally have to have it, the subby on the other hand requires no insurance although accident insurance would be a wise choice. Something for you to bare in mind...EL insurance doesn not cover the employee in the event of an accident, it covers the employer in the event of a court case/claim arising from an accident so you'd be stupid not to have it as if an accident does occur, and a claim is made then any moneys awarded to the employee would come out of your pocket. Don't be a fool, get the insurance.
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31 minutes ago, Coletti said:
19 hours ago, Conor Wright said:
Some interesting points here, take for example a situation such as mine, I'm a sole trader, no el. I bring in a se climber to do what I cannot, he invoices me as he was contacted.by me.regarding the job, I then pass on this invoice plus mine to the client (I don't make any extra on the climber, just pass on the cost) I also never expect the climber/s to do anything against their will e.g. go up without spikes or push to finish a job ahead of time.. ie. Im not "telling them what to do" who is liable if he/she has an accident in the tree..?

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As you employ him as a labour only sub contractor you legally have to have it, the subby on the other hand requires no insurance although accident insurance would be a wise choice. Something for you to bare in mind...EL insurance doesn not cover the employee in the event of an accident, it covers the employer in the event of a court case/claim arising from an accident so you'd be stupid not to have it as if an accident does occur, and a claim is made then any moneys awarded to the employee would come out of your pocket. Don't be a fool, get the insurance.

I went looking for more information on this as I always thought it to be the case I did not have to have el, and I do not.

The laws regarding insurance in Ireland are different to the UK. My climber needs to have his own cover in place to protect himself. Under the laws here there is no requirement for me to have cover extending to others, provided they have cover themselves.

There is also no legal requirement to have pl insurance in place, but I imagine it's now rare to have anyone operating without it.

Basically an uninsured climber becomes an employee (scary) and a self employed climber with his own cover remains self employed and subject to the regulations in his own insurance contract, regardless of whether he invoices me or the client directly.

I presumed, wrongly, that there was some standardised set of rules throughout Europe regarding cover.

We have been talking about two different sets of regulations for the same practise.

Pays to read the regulations, also helps when your partner has been working in the insurance industry for well over a decade!

Having berated me for not knowing what I had been paying for for years she helpfully explained the legal differences between here and the UK. Then showed me the relevant paragraphs in my policy booklet. We have it easy here in comparison! Much more comprehensive legislation over the water it seems.. 

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I went looking for more information on this as I always thought it to be the case I did not have to have el, and I do not.
The laws regarding insurance in Ireland are different to the UK. My climber needs to have his own cover in place to protect himself. Under the laws here there is no requirement for me to have cover extending to others, provided they have cover themselves.
There is also no legal requirement to have pl insurance in place, but I imagine it's now rare to have anyone operating without it.
Basically an uninsured climber becomes an employee (scary) and a self employed climber with his own cover remains self employed and subject to the regulations in his own insurance contract, regardless of whether he invoices me or the client directly.
I presumed, wrongly, that there was some standardised set of rules throughout Europe regarding cover.
We have been talking about two different sets of regulations for the same practise.
Pays to read the regulations, also helps when your partner has been working in the insurance industry for well over a decade!
Having berated me for not knowing what I had been paying for for years she helpfully explained the legal differences between here and the UK. Then showed me the relevant paragraphs in my policy booklet. We have it easy here in comparison! Much more comprehensive legislation over the water it seems.. 
My apologies, I didn't realise you were in Ireland and didn't realise there were differences. As you may have gathered, my statement was at someone in England (Scotland and Wales too at a guess). I always thought that EL covered the employee in the event of an accident, it wasn't till I actually started going through the small print that I realised it was actually to protect the employer
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Just now, Coletti said:
7 minutes ago, Conor Wright said:
I went looking for more information on this as I always thought it to be the case I did not have to have el, and I do not.
The laws regarding insurance in Ireland are different to the UK. My climber needs to have his own cover in place to protect himself. Under the laws here there is no requirement for me to have cover extending to others, provided they have cover themselves.
There is also no legal requirement to have pl insurance in place, but I imagine it's now rare to have anyone operating without it.
Basically an uninsured climber becomes an employee (scary) and a self employed climber with his own cover remains self employed and subject to the regulations in his own insurance contract, regardless of whether he invoices me or the client directly.
I presumed, wrongly, that there was some standardised set of rules throughout Europe regarding cover.
We have been talking about two different sets of regulations for the same practise.
Pays to read the regulations, also helps when your partner has been working in the insurance industry for well over a decade!
Having berated me for not knowing what I had been paying for for years she helpfully explained the legal differences between here and the UK. Then showed me the relevant paragraphs in my policy booklet. We have it easy here in comparison! Much more comprehensive legislation over the water it seems.. 

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My apologies, I didn't realise you were in Ireland and didn't realise there were differences. As you may have gathered, my statement was at someone in England (Scotland and Wales too at a guess). I always thought that EL covered the employee in the event of an accident, it wasn't till I actually started going through the small print that I realised it was actually to protect the employer

No worries, its better to know these things. I had presumed we were sharing a whole set of regulations, probably the same across much of western Europe. So it was presumptious of me to jump into the conversation. seems as if each country, to a certain extent, has it's own legal nuances, so to speak. Much of it is set from case law ie. The outcomes of court cases, which can vary widely.

It is 100% legal for a company to work here with no insurance except a road traffic act policy. ie car insurance allowing you to travel to the site legally! 

Every day is a school day.

As an aside, my pl insurance(As a sole trader) does cover an employee for a maximum of 52 days labour per year with no restrictions on the type of labour implied.. so if an accident does occur involving another person there is a level of cover built into my policy. 

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On 09/03/2019 at 16:28, buffalo606 said:

I believe NPTC Unit 308 (CS39) covers it surely?

 

Unfortunately not.

 

Neither in the practical use nor the theory sections

 

Chainsaw from rope and harness assessments have always permitted the use of top or rear handled saws whilst performing the cuts.  There is no obligation to demonstrate the use of a topper.

 

There are a couple of cursory questions on top handle use.

 

 

I certainly did my CS39 with a rear handled saw.

 

I have always advised experienced users of top handled saws to use rear handles for their assessments as well........ far harder to slip back into those bad habits! 

 

 

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They are buggers, you go up n tell yr self "2 anchors n two hands fr the cut" then that lil bit you just can't get means you break yr own rule.... Thou frankly the way some fellas use them I would take their tickets off them. K

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Good point khriss, I’ve always thought that you should every so many years re-do your chainsaw from rope and harness, seeing what is out there is scary. But if truth is told I think that most of us are a bit guilty of the odd hold and cut, I know I am[emoji17]

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On 07/03/2019 at 23:12, Bolt said:

In general yes, except cars (of course).

 

 

Cars and shotguns.

 

 

 

....and dangerous dogs.

 

 

...and drones near airports.

 

 

...and FM radio transmitters.

 

 

...and GPS jammers

 

 

...and creosote  (the genuine stuff)

 

 

...and pretty much all work equipment.

 

 

...and zombie knives.

 

 

...and hoodies in Sefton.

 

 

 

 

Actually, other than possibly "my-little-ponies" I reckon someone is trying to tell you what you can and can't do with pretty much everything.

But use your own intelligence, experience  to know what you can do with a product you've purchased.

Do you need  a warning your hot drink maybe hot

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