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Bogieman

In days of old when woodcutters were bold

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51 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

This is my feeling also, I have some older saws which used to run 25:1 and seem fine at 50:1. Do you know the science behind this? Is it just better oil?

 

I lashed out on some Stihl ultra  2t oil in the hope it will reduce the chance of lubrication failure, even though none of my saws require it (non strato). My hedgecutters use aspen red.

I can not give you the full supposed "Science" but I  believe the thinking is .....early oil's used were often just a sort of motor oil in "most" cases so not up to snuff compared to what we all use now. I remember my Granddad using Castrol green engine oil at 20:1 to make mix for his Stihl 08  back in the early 70's so i think a lot of "This is how iv always done it" sort things may have happened . Fuel is not the same now as then due to the "no lead content" along with all the other things the industry uses in it now.  I note many Pro MAC"s (USA) talk of  40:1 in a manual iv seen if you used there recommended oil (what that was i cant say). Over all though...same thinking as yourself re modern "Full synthetic" 2 stroke oils in old saws

Edited by Sawchip

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27 minutes ago, Sawchip said:

Fuel is not the same now as then due to the "no lead content"

Just a small point, I believe leaded fuel was to an extent self lubricating.

 

I can remember one saw running through a whole tank of straight leaded before nipping up.

 

A couple of asides:  Outboard motors which were watercooled ran at 100:1

 

In my teens before I came across the first chainsaw I used, DDA110, that ran on 16:1 and this was the same oil and ratio as my Bantam and my mate's Ariel Leader. The leader was prone to nip up if you went down a long hill on overrun, hence you learned to coast. Similarly the Saabs at the time could not overrun as the transmission had a freewheel. Chainsaws don't need to overrun so possibly less need for residual lubrication??

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I've heard it suggested that modern two-stroke oil is good enough that you could actually mix it at 100:1 and it would be fine.

 

I'm not about to try it out, but it does suggest that the oils themselves have developed.

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29 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

Just a small point, I believe leaded fuel was to an extent self lubricating.

 

I can remember one saw running through a whole tank of straight leaded before nipping up.

 

A couple of asides:  Outboard motors which were watercooled ran at 100:1

 

In my teens before I came across the first chainsaw I used, DDA110, that ran on 16:1 and this was the same oil and ratio as my Bantam and my mate's Ariel Leader. The leader was prone to nip up if you went down a long hill on overrun, hence you learned to coast. Similarly the Saabs at the time could not overrun as the transmission had a freewheel. Chainsaws don't need to overrun so possibly less need for residual lubrication??

I remember seeing that about the first Saab on James Mays prog about the "Cars Of the People" 

I guess there is always fuel needed to keep a Chainsaw (and other similar OPE)  from stalling out at idle due to the centrifugal clutch system rather than as with the Bikes and cars having a direct link from the gearbox to the motor via the clutch keeping the motor turning regardless of throttle position. 

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37 minutes ago, Spruce Pirate said:

I've heard it suggested that modern two-stroke oil is good enough that you could actually mix it at 100:1 and it would be fine.

 

I'm not about to try it out, but it does suggest that the oils themselves have developed.

I think you would know ? ...Dolmar have a oil that they say can be used at 100:1 

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My old boss bought a Allen scythe with 2stroke engine he mix modern engine oil with petrol and that thing was a bas...d to start and keep running, I got fed up with it and ran it on chainsaw mix 50/1 thing ran a treat and kept running it on that all the time. 

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1 hour ago, openspaceman said:

Outboard motors which were watercooled ran at 100:1

Yeah, I run my Yamaha outboards on Stihl HP ultra. 100:1's probably only fine long term as they really don't get hot { until the impeller goes } and compared to a modern saw are in a very low state of tune, really thirsty and also under very little stress compared to most other 2 strokes.

I remember some of the 2 stroke old bikes I had, mostly powered by Villiers engines used to have the oil measure cup built onto the bottom of the gas tank cap.....Now they were smoky.

The lead did act as a lubricant and to prevent pre-ignition, back in the day I ran my Triumphs on 5 star at 11-1 +, don't really like fecking 2 strokes 😁 cheers. 

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11 minutes ago, Macpherson said:

Yeah, I run my Yamaha outboards on Stihl HP ultra. 100:1's probably only fine long term as they really don't get hot { until the impeller goes } and compared to a modern saw are in a very low state of tune, really thirsty and also under very little stress compared to most other 2 strokes.

I remember some of the 2 stroke old bikes I had, mostly powered by Villiers engines used to have the oil measure cup built onto the bottom of the gas tank cap.....Now they were smoky.

The lead did act as a lubricant and to prevent pre-ignition, back in the day I ran my Triumphs on 5 star at 11-1 +, don't really like fecking 2 strokes 😁 cheers. 

Some Danarm saws had Villiers 2 strokes on them , to run them on there side you had to rotate the back handle and that also took the carb with it to keep it upright ...float carbs .

Edited by Sawchip

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