Rock exotica akimbo

[Mr. Squirrel]

5 hours ago, Marc said:

Yes, the user instructions go into pretty clear detail on replacement of the hitch cord tied as a 4/4 VT which is what it would of been tested to, so to maintain conformity...

 

As the competent person... a role I hate as I now have to stifle innovation and what i consider good practice and professionalism.

It used to be that I was happy to LOLER and deem for for purpose any product that confirmed to ANSI, and that configuration by suitably competent persons of their own PPE to their own requirements to allow them to achieve safe, efficient crown movement And positioning.

Unfortunately I was considered a maverick ? and basically told no this is not permitted, make your climbers conform.

So the uncomfortable conversation was had with the group of arborists working for us(some with 25 years of active climbing experience to the highest level) that no you can’t climb on that! 
We went through their kit bags and essentially said whilst working here you are not permitted to climb on that PPE.

 

Trying to talk to very competent climbers who do not fall out of trees, who have made this their professional passion was hard.

To be fair though, all complied and adopted CE approved complete systems.

 

And now just before Xmas I had to sit down again with the team (and the guy working on the icop...) and tell them they now need to consider two rope working, I have a real uphill battle with this...

 

So do you mean you told the climbers they had to climb on a certified system, basically that they had to use the CE climb? Or a system built of CE components?

[Marc]

1 hour ago, Mr. Squirrel said:

So do you mean you told the climbers they had to climb on a certified system, basically that they had to use the CE climb? Or a system built of CE components?

Built of CE components.

so no BD bones, Akimbos etc, no ANSI ropes.

and no Zig Zag and rope wrench combos. All things picked up on our Arb assessment.

 

 

[Mr. Squirrel]

6 minutes ago, Marc said:

Built of CE components.

so no BD bones, Akimbos etc, no ANSI ropes.

and no Zig Zag and rope wrench combos. All things picked up on our Arb assessment.

 

 

Ah ok, that seems slightly less severe ?

I can understand where you're coming from as an employer, and really that isn't a massive ask. Though an awkward conversation to be sure.

I'd just be gutted at having to buy e2e hitch cords. 

[Jake Andrews]

31 minutes ago, Marc said:

Built of CE components.

so no BD bones, Akimbos etc, no ANSI ropes.

and no Zig Zag and rope wrench combos. All things picked up on our Arb assessment.

 

 

So it was the AA that made you have that talk with your climbers?

 

[Marc]

1 minute ago, Jake Andrews said:

So it was the AA that made you have that talk with your climbers?

 

Yeah for sure, I’ve only been the contracts manager for a short time, and I was so happy with how things were going, so I just told everyone act normal just an ordinary day.

Well that soon bite me in the ass...

[Jake Andrews]

4 minutes ago, Marc said:

Yeah for sure, I’ve only been the contracts manager for a short time, and I was so happy with how things were going, so I just told everyone act normal just an ordinary day.

Well that soon bite me in the ass...

?????? - Im only laughing because i can just imagine your horror....................... especially the two rope talk.

[Marc]

1 hour ago, Jake Andrews said:

?????? - Im only laughing because i can just imagine your horror....................... especially the two rope talk.

Pretty much went like this.

”guys I need you to consider using two ropes from tomorrow”

 

”fuck off”

 

I then had the person involved in drafting the ICOP give a tool box talk which seemed to calm things down a bit.

 

Although what he had said seems totally at odds with the draft version, so we are waiting on further guidance and will consider our position.

[stewmo]

20 minutes ago, Marc said:

Pretty much went like this.

”guys I need you to consider using two ropes from tomorrow”

 

”fuck off”

 

I then had the person involved in drafting the ICOP give a tool box talk which seemed to calm things down a bit.

 

Although what he had said seems totally at odds with the draft version, so we are waiting on further guidance and will consider our position.

Go on, what did he say then.....being in the 'fuck off' camp i'm interested

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by stewmo

[Marc]

25 minutes ago, stewmo said:

Go on, what did he say then.....being in the 'fuck off' camp i'm interested

 

I don’t want to comment to much until further guidance, I have asked him to come back in Jan now the draft is out for a further conversation with the team.

 

My understanding from it and I’ve spoken to those also involved in the demonstrations, all very good arborists. No one wants this, but how does our little big industry turn round and go to the HSE and say we are not going to comply to WAH regulations and will continue to not comply.

 

I've had another look at the stats, and you have to remember, these are stats only from those who reported their incidents, I wouldn’t even want to guess how many never bothered to report a fall.

Its alarming, what is also alarming to me is the number of AAAC contractors who’ve had falls at height.

 

Again alarming on a recent 1st aid course we ran at our yard was the number of accidents those who attended had been involved in.

 

Its all well and good saying well we don’t fall out of trees so why should we have to use two ropes.

But we are governed by those who can’t I guess. Bit like speed limits and gun control.

 

i do feel better training, and more supervision would prevent a lot of this happening, skills are in short supply though so it is logical to conclude this will prevent falls.

Its not a stance I want to take though, but until the rest of the industry improves I can understand why we are here.

 

We may just leave the AA and co to us to provide high quality works to our clients who care about quality and safety and just keep our heads down.

Many of our team also work abroad so for them to transition from 1 to 2 ropes is not going to be easy, I rate them highly and would rather have their skill and competence on my team than be dragged down by this and losing good climbers

 

rock and a hard place.

 

[stewmo]

12 hours ago, Marc said:

 

 

rock and a hard place.

 

That's about it really isn't it. Still, there will always be rules and there will always be interpretations....