How can we improve stove safety even further?

[BowlandStoves]

There appear to be a number of issues which could and should have been addressed to ensure the tragedy did not happen:-

 

https://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/news/17201527.inquest-hears-that-stove-in-house-at-knock-had-been-condemned-days-before-fire/

 

What else should we do to improve stove safety?

[aesmith]

Without belittling the tragedy, it seems that the stove was known to be dangerous but continued in use nonetheless.  Do we know whether there was a particular fault with the stove itself or it's installation, as opposed to just wear and age?  Looking at that particular case I'd like to know what steps the landlord had taken.

 

In the wider view, what proportion of house fires are caused by wood stoves?  The stats that I found on a quick check don't distinguish so would be included with "space heating appliances" for example in this report ..

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/738432/detailed-analysis-fires-attended-fire-rescue-england-1718-hosb1718.pdf

[Khriss]

Much less than chip pan fires or tumbledryer fires I would bet . K

[difflock]

A non-story, shit happens, though I would be curious to understand the possible/probable ignition mechanisms.

If the last person to leave the room, without touching the stove, did not notice owt amiss, i.e. no smoky or burning smell, and the fire was (presumably) dying down, why should ignition occur anytime  later?

Were cloths drying in the vicinity?

Was the stove on a non-combustible hearth, probably not since this was not listed as a fault. 

But my previous still applies.

From someone who has noticed hot/burning smells and removed the scorched(but previously damp) firewood from beside the stove.

Before retiring to bed.

Or has someone jumped to conclusions and blamed the stove simply because it was otherwise defective.

P.S.

I just Re-read the link.

I Have not changed my mind, despite the apparently decrepit "in bits" stove, what did it ignite/what was beside it to ignite?

And why did no-one in the room notice owt amiss, between the stated 20.00 and 23.59.

Edited November 13, 2018 by difflock

[Alycidon]

Friend of mine is a senior person in the old Gas board.  One of their engineers condemed a boiler, stuck a label on it, disconnected it and told the lady home owner and got her to sign the paperwork to say that she understood the reason why the boiler had been disconnected etc.

Next day they get a call from the Police,  Mr Home Owner had returned and reconnected his dangerous boiler,  that night the fumes given off killed his wife.

 

One of my regular clients sent me a pic of his nice creme Ecoburn that we installed a year or two ago,  complete with a stash of my very dry kiln dried Birch stacked up behind it.  The stove was running,  he got an immediate phone call.  

 

A

[Alycidon]

To answer the question,   I feel most manufacturers user instructions are pretty inadequate,  I send my own supplementary instructions out with each stove.   This covers using the stove glove, use of the stove, suitable fuels,  unsuitable fuels, FC info on firewood and the importance of low moisture levels,  tips on burning wood, warnings about using man made solid fuels with 316 grade liner,  a list of local sweeps, etc.

 

It may be an idea to outlaw self installs,  so a stove can only be sold as part of an install package,  most problems are caused by self installs.   Had two cases on Monday,  one guy bought a non defra woodburner who lived in a smoke control area,  he hung up when I gave him the good news.  Another bought an inset on line because she liked it with no idea at all if it was suited to her requirements,  when I asked her she just shrugged her shoulders.   Then she got her son to fit it !!, he pretty obviously had little idea.

 

A

Edited November 13, 2018 by Alycidon

[BowlandStoves]

I wonder how many of these self installs are not signed off by the local council? People are warned time and time again about the dangers but many seem to assume "it will never happen to me". Maybe when stoves or boilers are deemed dangerous in the future they should be removed or repaired immediately. I appreciate this is not always possible but the situation is similar to being stopped by the police for having an unsafe car, then giving you the keys back to go on your merry way - it just doesnt happen in other dangerous situations.

[Rob_the_Sparky]

I'm amazed how often photographers taken photos showing wood stacked up around wood burners.  For example:

 https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/michael-goves-stove-ban-is-a-direct-attack-on-country-life/ 

and even worse:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/12170394/Why-my-wood-burning-stove-will-be-the-death-of-me.html

 

Little wonder you get people doing this if the main stream press uses photos like this.  Particularly the second one...

 

[Haironyourchest]

Yup, that's the solution alright: more nanny stateism. More beurocratic control over what people do in their own homes...if its a terraced street situation, where other homes could burn as a result, then yes, I might concede there is an argument for it. But one size doesn't fit all. Education and personal responsibility, are the way to go, I'd say.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Haironyourchest

[Alycidon]

35 minutes ago, BowlandStoves said:

I wonder how many of these self installs are not signed off by the local council? People are warned time and time again about the dangers but many seem to assume "it will never happen to me". Maybe when stoves or boilers are deemed dangerous in the future they should be removed or repaired immediately. I appreciate this is not always possible but the situation is similar to being stopped by the police for having an unsafe car, then giving you the keys back to go on your merry way - it just doesnt happen in other dangerous situations.

Very few I would say,  one town nearby was charging £400 to travel 5 miles,  2 minute check and certify,   Another town was charging £150 for the same service.    

 

Maybe home insurance companies should start asking questions,  is there a wood burning stove installed in the property, if so in which room,  etc etc,   and asking for proof of sign off,  at the end of the day there are not enough civil servants to Police the existing smoke control regs let alone anything in addition.

 

Yesterday I came across an old  Clearview 650,  run without firebricks,  being overfired using small joinery off cuts,  wooden beam about 150mm from the flue pipe shielded by a steel plate.   Stove was only fit for scrap as the casing had buckled and some of the welds cracked.

 

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