Assessing climbers for safeness

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Yep, albeit don't try the link as it don't work anymore but if anyone's interested, and as I said it's shelved not binned, it was called 'R2' (Register of Tree Work Operatives) http://www.amlane.co.uk/sector-updates/registeroftreeworkoperativesislaunched

 

..."a step-wise progression" - what a great turn of phrase, wish I could come up with stuff like that!

 

Cheers..

Paul

[TIMON]

i'd forgot about that.  Shame it didn't come off

I agree Steve, it is a shame, for a number of reasons.
CITB do the exact same thing with telehandler operators tickets.
First you get your basic ticket, then after 3 years of operating one (and hopefully breaking less stuff) you sit your refresher/assessment which requires a higher standard from the operator and upon passing you get a ‘higher grade’ of ticket.
Surprising that this hasn’t been taken up in the ARB industry as there is certainly money to be made from this kind of training/up-skilling. IRATA do staged qualifications too don’t they?
Maybe going down this route would inject some much needed value into the industry.

[LGP Eddie]

On 30/08/2018 at 17:21, TIMON said:

 

I agree Steve, it is a shame, for a number of reasons.
CITB do the exact same thing with telehandler operators tickets.
First you get your basic ticket, then after 3 years of operating one (and hopefully breaking less stuff) you sit your refresher/assessment which requires a higher standard from the operator and upon passing you get a ‘higher grade’ of ticket.
Surprising that this hasn’t been taken up in the ARB industry as there is certainly money to be made from this kind of training/up-skilling. IRATA do staged qualifications too don’t they?
Maybe going down this route would inject some much needed value into the industry.

 

CPCS Scheme doesn't exactly work like this and certainly doesn't require 3 years or a higher standard to attain a Blue supposedly Competent Operator Card.

This Scheme has killed Plant Operating skills stone dead, it's called a "Ticket" because that's all it is, an entry to site, box ticking for HSE, arse covering, money printing racket!

I know lads who've got a Blue Card from a standing start in 6 months and only attended one Saturday morning for the paperwork and a few photos in a machine to get the Red.

The card gives absolutely no indication of an Operators previous experience or skill level, and leaves a lottery for employers/hirers who have to literally wait and see what they've got in the seat?

 

Please don't even think of modelling anything on this scheme!

 

 

Eddie.

 

 

[TIMON]

CPCS Scheme doesn't exactly work like this and certainly doesn't require 3 years or a higher standard to attain a Blue supposedly Competent Operator Card.
This Scheme has killed Plant Operating skills stone dead, it's called a "Ticket" because that's all it is, an entry to site, box ticking for HSE, arse covering, money printing racket!
I know lads who've got a Blue Card from a standing start in 6 months and only attended one Saturday morning for the paperwork and a few photos in a machine to get the Red.
The card gives absolutely no indication of an Operators previous experience or skill level, and leaves a lottery for employers/hirers who have to literally wait and see what they've got in the seat?
 
Please don't even think of modelling anything on this scheme!
 
 
Eddie.
 
 

I spent years driving telehandlers. I first did mine on the RTITB scheme in the 90’s and that ticket has no expiry date unlike the CITB one I took a few years later that was required to work on construction sites. The CITB/CPCS ticket has now expired, my understanding was that you worked your way through the different grades (can’t remember the colour codes) of assessment much like IRATA guys do.
I don’t see how a properly assessed progression through competency levels in ARB skills would necessarily be a bad thing.

[AHPP]

I don’t see how a properly assessed progression through competency levels in ARB skills would necessarily be a bad thing.

It wouldn’t but it’ll never happen because loads of people are making loads of money from punting loads of improperly assessed progression.

[Shooter]

 

On 01/09/2018 at 00:14, AHPP said:

 

It wouldn’t but it’ll never happen because loads of people are making loads of money from punting loads of improperly assessed progression.

 

care to expand on that?

[Stephen Blair]

Forgetting he’s laws, rules etc.
It comes down to the morality of the person in charge of the climber. If they care for others well being, their gut instinct will be to teach and keep everyone safe.
Imo it depends what trees have been put in front of them, get new starts up the deadest scariest stuff imaginable straight away, get them really bricking themselves, then they will decide how much they want the job and if they are willing to trust their mentor on the ground encouraging them to trust their guidance.
Running around connies with a top handle and a go pro for a year doing domestic garden topping just leads to arrogance and false confidence in many, so when the day comes they have to get up something scary they try and save face and then that’s where the danger starts, they can’t climb, can’t cut and put others in danger.
This is all based from my little goldfish bowl in tree work and watching lots of utube videos [emoji3]

[AHPP]

 

care to expand on that?

You pay £500 to do a course + assessment somewhere. You pass, you go back there. You fail, you go elsewhere. Anyone running courses who is prepared to fail shit candidates will struggle. I know the irrefutably best trainer in the UK in a totally different field. If you pass with him, it means something. He’s still struggling business wise. Most people want to tick boxes and there aren’t enough people wanting something they can really hang their hat on to make providing for that viable.

 

Does that make sense?

[eggsarascal]

3 hours ago, AHPP said:

You pay £500 to do a course + assessment somewhere. You pass, you go back there. You fail, you go elsewhere. Anyone running courses who is prepared to fail shit candidates will struggle. I know the irrefutably best trainer in the UK in a totally different field. If you pass with him, it means something. He’s still struggling business wise. Most people want to tick boxes and there aren’t enough people wanting something they can really hang their hat on to make providing for that viable.

 

Does that make sense?

It's wide spread in all training Alex. I've been doing Confined Space refreshers since the 90's and have never seen anyone fail even if they've made a complete and utter feck up of it. Not got a proper seal on a face mask, not even been able to get the mask out of its bag. These folk work amongst us and are supposed to be able to know how it works and on some occasions be able to get you out of the ground if it goes tits up, some hope!

[peatff]

On 30/08/2018 at 17:09, AA Teccie (Paul) said:

.."a step-wise progression" - what a great turn of phrase, wish I could come up with stuff like that!

 

Cheers..

Paul

 

Blue sky thinking mate, you've either got it or you haven't