Is this the end?

[openspaceman]

55 minutes ago, Stere said:

The True Cost of Green Energy

Biomass will provide up to 30% of our renewable energy by 2020. But is burning wood instead of coal environmentally friendly? 

Actually Stere was quoting from a Ch4 trailer, which I haven't managed to view but it's the numbers that interest me. Currently we use about 4GWh of electrical energy from biomass, 24/7. That's around 44milliom green tonnes per annum but only 4% of the load in summer, half that in winter. Compare that to the 20% currently generated by wind, and I don't particularly like looking at wind turbines.

 

We're on an overpopulated small island and we're going to depend on importing this feedstock.

 

Biomass demand seems to have filled the vacuum created by the demise of pulp mills and small sawmills (most of which only existed because of pre GATT tariffs) but in real terms the prices are much less.

 

In the pre 1993 days all millable timber was milled, even if only into chocks and cover boards for mining, pulp was next down in the heirarchy and firewood below that. So all my straight wood went for milling or pulp,  even oak cord wood did until the pulp mills stopped taking 1 metre lengths. Now I see millable hardwood going for chipping or firewood and much of the wood we harvested  being left as lop and top.

 

There is good reason for this, mostly mechanisation driving down harvesting costs. Not that I advocate a return to those days, it was hard and not financially rewarding but I still see it as a waste of sound structural material.

 

[arboriculturist]

The UK are bound by EU legislation regarding energy production from renewables. As it stands at present we are bound by UK law to produce 15% of energy from renewables by 2020. Leaving the EU renders the enforcement of the UK’s 2020 renewable energy targets uncertain.

Needless to say there the huge penalties to pay if we don't deliver and these go from the top down. Government (public money) get enormous fines and the Timber Harvesting Companies are encumbered with financial clauses that hit them hard if they don't deliver the roundwood quantities to the biomass power stations. This is why they are sending chip, hardwoods, even sawlogs to those sites.

This is not renewable energy as we know it, trees don't grow that fast and the inefficient burning in converted coal power stations at present certainly isn't.

Building the Severn Hydro barrier would be a good start.

 

IS THIS THE END   -   To make a living from firewood production alone, I think will left to the super efficient established businesses for many reasons.

Edited August 19, 2018 by arboriculturist

[Baldbloke]

Spot on. 
 
If you want someone to blame for the imminent collapse of domestic firewood, blame the government. 
 
RHI, paid by the government, means that anyone using wood who does not qualify for RHI payments is at an automatic financial disadvantage. Given the generosity of RHI, it's a huge disadvantage. 
 
Look at it from the sawmill's perspective too - chipwood is making more than green log now in places too. It's going to rip the heart out of that industry too. 
 
It's staggeringly short sighted to think that the UK has sufficient timber stocks to cope with the demand from RHI. If the UK leaves the EU without a deal, we'll be doubly stuffed with the issues it would create for imports.

On the point of RHI payments. I qualified for the payments, but between applying and approval realised that with the ongoing anal paperwork it wasn’t worth the few hundred quid my small 60Kw biomass plant would have made.
I found I’d rather not have the hassle of record keeping and timing of mandatory submissions. Cutting my own wood without the subsidy still saves me at least 3k annually over using the oil boiler, so for a large house an efficient biomass boiler can still pay dividends without the government subsidy.
Also I get to keep my oil boiler for occasional use if I can’t be bothered to fire up the biomass or if friends are house sitting[emoji1303]

[Big J]

I don't understand why on this windy, wet little island that we don't take greater advantage of what is widely abundant - wind and hydro power. I have no problem with looking at wind farms, and much prefer it to the unsustainable rate of timber felling at the moment. Scotland is incredibly wet, with vast amounts of rainfall on the west coast. Plenty of potential there as well. 

 

Producing 'green' energy from wood on a large scale is labour intensive compared to wind or hydro, which require no fuel to be brought to the generator. Wood is ideally suited to small scale, domestic and small business heating needs, and given the lack of supply in the UK, using it for anything else isn't sustainable. 

[Squaredy]

1 hour ago, Big J said:

I don't understand why on this windy, wet little island that we don't take greater advantage of what is widely abundant - wind and hydro power. I have no problem with looking at wind farms, and much prefer it to the unsustainable rate of timber felling at the moment. Scotland is incredibly wet, with vast amounts of rainfall on the west coast. Plenty of potential there as well. 

 

Producing 'green' energy from wood on a large scale is labour intensive compared to wind or hydro, which require no fuel to be brought to the generator. Wood is ideally suited to small scale, domestic and small business heating needs, and given the lack of supply in the UK, using it for anything else isn't sustainable. 

Yes but Jonathon, you are using logic and common sense.  They really don't come into it in the real world it seems.

 

Wales is also ideally placed for large scale hydro power.  Electricity from rain and hills....sounds perfect to me.

[SteveA]

2 hours ago, Big J said:

I don't understand why on this windy, wet little island that we don't take greater advantage of what is widely abundant - wind and hydro power. I have no problem with looking at wind farms, and much prefer it to the unsustainable rate of timber felling at the moment. Scotland is incredibly wet, with vast amounts of rainfall on the west coast. Plenty of potential there as well. 

 

Producing 'green' energy from wood on a large scale is labour intensive compared to wind or hydro, which require no fuel to be brought to the generator. Wood is ideally suited to small scale, domestic and small business heating needs, and given the lack of supply in the UK, using it for anything else isn't sustainable. 

I don't understand why it's not okay to have a Tidal Lagoon in Swansea but it is fine to dump radioactive mud in the sea that isn't tested properly???!

[openspaceman]

56 minutes ago, Squaredy said:

Yes but Jonathon, you are using logic and common sense.  They really don't come into it in the real world it seems.

 

Wales is also ideally placed for large scale hydro power.  Electricity from rain and hills....sounds perfect to me.

Would you like to work out how much rain falls on Welsh land which is over 300 metrs asl and then calculate what potential energy that has?

[spandit]

12 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

Would you like to work out how much rain falls on Welsh land which is over 300 metrs asl and then calculate what potential energy that has?

Assuming the whole of Wales is over 300m with 1.5m of rainfall, I calculate about 90PJ, just under half the energy of the Tsar Bomba. 

[openspaceman]

34 minutes ago, spandit said:

Assuming the whole of Wales is over 300m with 1.5m of rainfall, I calculate about 90PJ, just under half the energy of the Tsar Bomba. 

Well I don't think it is all over 300 metres but if your calculation is right that's an average of about 3.5GW, about the same as biomass power generation for all UK and less than 10% of winter average daily demand. Personally I've nothing against turning Wales into a vast hydro electric reservoir ? (I cannot find a tongue in cheek smiley)

[Rob D]

On 19/08/2018 at 18:36, Baldbloke said:

 

On the point of RHI payments. I qualified for the payments, but between applying and approval realised that with the ongoing anal....

 

 

Oh Matron....!   ??