Climbing without aerial rescue?

[Gary Prentice]

3 hours ago, Treewolf said:

This may be a question that everyone else knows the answer to, but I don't....

 

If you are a freelance self employed climber, is the provision of appropriate rescue arrangements down to you (as you are your own employer)  or the outfit you are contracted to?

Would you have to take it on a case by case basis? Climbing for a non-arb company (a landscaper say) where you wouldn't expect any staff who can climb to be present, the onus 'might' come back to you but I doubt it. Anyway, it's something that the person writing the RAMS should be considering and that you (or any subbie) should be asking about. 

 

I don't know the answer, but think that the responsibility probably lies with the company contracted to do the actual work. They write the risk assessment and if they can't meet the rescue climber obligation, then it's down to them to organise it, whether that means getting an employee trained or organising for one to be present - either provided and billed by you or by them getting someone suitable on site for the duration of the climbing part of the job.  

 

 

[Dan Maynard]

This sounds a bit like the question about employers liability insurance, when two self employed people get together do you need EL? In that case the person responsible for the contract with the customer is held to be an employer even if some of the people on the job are self employed.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Dan Maynard
finger trouble

[WesD]

10 hours ago, Treewolf said:

This may be a question that everyone else knows the answer to, but I don't....

 

If you are a freelance self employed climber, is the provision of appropriate rescue arrangements down to you (as you are your own employer)  or the outfit you are contracted to?

Both!

 

 

[WesD]

You can have 5 climbers on a job but real world incident 4 of those could flap and go into shock upon a real world incident where a rescue is required and the 5th could be bleeding out. 

 

You can be as trained as you like and refreshed every 6 months but when needed I guarantee you things won’t go down as per risk assessment. 

 

If you climb solo know your limitations, if your in a gang your only as good as the guys beneath you, cut small think twice, don’t try to be fast and stay safe. 

[stihlmadasever]

10 hours ago, Treewolf said:

This may be a question that everyone else knows the answer to, but I don't....

 

If you are a freelance self employed climber, is the provision of appropriate rescue arrangements down to you (as you are your own employer)  or the outfit you are contracted to?

Your employer has a duty of care over employees and is legally obliged to provide a rescue climber.

Real world,not all do and even those that do provide a groundie with a rescue ticket,some of em havent climbed regular so would be of no use in a worst case scenario.

[Puffingbilly413]

I've been considering an ART twinline for the reasons some have gone into above (sadly I'm waiting for cash flow to improve to get one - plus the extra rope).

 

The concept seems a good one to me - get two lines in as part of the same process and you automatically have a rescue line (or spare line) taking you to the main climber's TIP.

 

Anyone used one?

 

PS yes you'd still need a rescue climber but getting them up there would be quicker to the extent of making the rescue climber exactly that rather than a paperwork exercise perhaps?

Edited August 14, 2018 by Puffingbilly413

[WesD]

9 minutes ago, Puffingbilly413 said:

I've been considering an ART twinline for the reasons some have gone into above (sadly I'm waiting for cash flow to improve to get one - plus the extra rope).

 

The concept seems a good one to me - get two lines in as part of the same process and you automatically have a rescue line (or spare line) taking you to the main climber's TIP.

 

Anyone used one?

 

PS yes you'd still need a rescue climber but getting them up there would be quicker to the extent of making the rescue climber exactly that rather than a paperwork exercise perhaps?

Why not just have an extra rope and throw it over a good TIP? You don’t need the fancy stuff, climb how your comfy and put a second line in the old fashioned way. If that’s your thing, real world you’ll get pissed off with installing and de installing a second line. 

[Puffingbilly413]

5 minutes ago, WesD said:

Why not just have an extra rope and throw it over a good TIP? You don’t need the fancy stuff, climb how your comfy and put a second line in the old fashioned way. If that’s your thing, real world you’ll get pissed off with installing and de installing a second line. 

Yep - that's a fair point Wes.  I just like the idea of installing two lines from the ground at the same time.  And I do like stuff - perhaps that's the problem!

[Puffingbilly413]

6 minutes ago, Puffingbilly413 said:

Yep - that's a fair point Wes.  I just like the idea of installing two lines from the ground at the same time.  And I do like stuff - perhaps that's the problem!

I suppose I should add - the reason I replied here was that my thinking was if there is a complete system that works which will give people an 'automatic' rescue route from the off (ie the employer provides it, trains it etc) then that's got to be a good thing. Plus if it's there from the off then you don't need to install/re-install?

Edited August 14, 2018 by Puffingbilly413

[WesD]

15 minutes ago, Puffingbilly413 said:

I suppose I should add - the reason I replied here was that my thinking was if there is a complete system that works which will give people an 'automatic' rescue route from the off (ie the employer provides it, trains it etc) then that's got to be a good thing. Plus if it's there from the off then you don't need to install/re-install?

I see where your coming from but again real world, UK trees, just climb the tree and stop over thinking. I get installing from the floor on absolutely massive trees however let’s be honest 90% of the time a ladder and a climb is quicker and easier than installing from the ground plus once you have your TIP you can easily throw a rope over another crotch for rescue.