Riding The Crane Hook

[Mike Hill]

8 hours ago, monkeybusiness said:

 If you've ever heard the crane alarm going off (even just a little bit) then you are sailing very close to the wind - you should never hear that noise if the lift is planned and undertaken correctly. 

 

You have not done very many crane jobs

[benedmonds]

10 hours ago, monkeybusiness said:

It'd be the hirer's (ie the tree firm's) fault/responsibility if the crane tipped over if it wasn't a contract lift, whether the driver said it was fine or not. 

This is what the crane companies say but i don't know if it would hold up..  I might be wrong but it doesn't sound right to me.

I don't see how any climber is ever going to be qualified to draw up lift plans, understand about ground conditions required, capability of the crane etc. etc...  If that is the case the crane company who is still is operating the machine is surely liable if that bit goes pear shaped and should not offer a service to someone who cannot have the knowledge to do it safely.  

 

We don't use cranes often but the guy we normally use is an old feller who has been using cranes for 20+ years and does not differentiate, but when you ring round for prices it just feels like a scare tactic to me... As I say I might be wrong...

[Al Cormack]

It’s the only way to travel! Your paying £700 odd quid for the pleasure of it being on site, the least they can do is drop you in!

Wish they were that cheap here..
90t crane with outrigger pads £2100 + vat for the day

[difflock]

For cranework experience is everything, incl knowing when to ignore the over-safe auidable warning systems.

Having watched a wee Kato, very very safely  lift a fully laden binlorry out/off a soft verge, with the rear jacklegs clear off the ground and the alarm constantly warbling.

i.e. the crane was operating way outside its lifting capacity.

But

The driver was using the inertia of his crane to incrementally ease the truck back towards the hard.

Technically it was breaking all the safety rules, but conversely it was absolutely safe, as the binlorry never actually left the ground.

The driver merely grinned at me.

I approved.

Marcus

P.S.

I can only presume re tree work the driver should know from the trunk section, the likely max weight in any lift, and have discussed weights and section lengths to be cut with the guy on the chainsaw.

Seems obvious?

Marcus

Edited April 24, 2018 by difflock

[Mike Hill]

Generally the Bells will start to chime when approaching 70% of the lift capacity.So in a static lift you have 30% remaining.This is all considering the load remains static and the boom angle remains constant.

 

There are many factors that can overload a system,even if the lift was originally inside the spec's.Out rigger placement,crane angle,wind loading,sudden boom movement,conflict with other branches.

 

I have been doing crane dismantles for a bit over 20 years,I would estimate I have done several hundred.Thats not many for alot of people,especially in the states where some crews might do the same number in a year.But its enough to get a general idea of some of the factors.

[monkeybusiness]

3 hours ago, Mike Hill said:

You have not done very many crane jobs

I’ve done plenty pal, just don’t tend to shout about it as they are a pretty normal part of our operation. 

[monkeybusiness]

1 hour ago, difflock said:

For cranework experience is everything, incl knowing when to ignore the over-safe auidable warning systems.

Having watched a wee Kato, very very safely  lift a fully laden binlorry out/off a soft verge, with the rear jacklegs clear off the ground and the alarm constantly warbling.

i.e. the crane was operating way outside its lifting capacity.

But

The driver was using the inertia of his crane to incrementally ease the truck back towards the hard.

Technically it was breaking all the safety rules, but conversely it was absolutely safe, as the binlorry never actually left the ground.

The driver merely grinned at me.

I approved.

Marcus

P.S.

I can only presume re tree work the driver should know from the trunk section, the likely max weight in any lift, and have discussed weights and section lengths to be cut with the guy on the chainsaw.

Seems obvious?

Marcus

That’s all well and good when the load is on the floor - things are a lot different when the load is up in the air already!

[monkeybusiness]

1 hour ago, benedmonds said:

This is what the crane companies say but i don't know if it would hold up..  I might be wrong but it doesn't sound right to me.

I don't see how any climber is ever going to be qualified to draw up lift plans, understand about ground conditions required, capability of the crane etc. etc...  If that is the case the crane company who is still is operating the machine is surely liable if that bit goes pear shaped and should not offer a service to someone who cannot have the knowledge to do it safely.  

 

We don't use cranes often but the guy we normally use is an old feller who has been using cranes for 20+ years and does not differentiate, but when you ring round for prices it just feels like a scare tactic to me... As I say I might be wrong...

I would say what you’ve posted here proves why you should go for a contract lift tbh.

When you do crane dismantles commercially the client usually insists on a lift plan (ours do anyway). We had done plenty of domestic crane work in the past (and continue to do so now) with a similar old boy who knows his onions and would tell us what we could and couldn’t do. No crabes fell over, everything went smoothly from where I was sat, happy days!

However, we had a pretty tricky job for a big commercial customer so I put myself through the crane supervisor qualification and it was a real eye opener!

You should never get anywhere near the crane’s rated capacity when applying a suspended load of unknown weight - it’s all well and good having a driver telling you he’s good for 2 tonnes so take a big piece (as in reality he probably wants to get home for tea - it’s basic human nature) but it’s a very different story when a 60 tonne crane working at 35m starts lifting its rear outleggers off the ground with the boom directly over your climber, and nowhere to drop the load... 

Measure the job out, specify what size crane you need, write a lift plan and stick to it - you shouldn’t here any alarms as long as you don’t play Bertie Big-Bollocks.

 

[Mike Hill]

2 hours ago, monkeybusiness said:

I’ve done plenty pal, just don’t tend to shout about it as they are a pretty normal part of our operation. 

You are telling fibs. 

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Albeit from 2014, but article writers are the main authors for the forthcoming (poss. end of year) Cranes in Arbor. technical guide, see http://www.hse.gov.uk/treework/articles/cranes-in-arboriculture.htm checking out the 2nd image.

 

Cheers,

Paul