Lifelong learning- A costly affair?

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

My current situation has left me feeling a little depressed i have to say, and has left me wondering wether i am losing that spark, because there seems to be few options for a dedicated student of arboriculture.

 

You see I dont have a boss whos interested in CPD or in me "advancing" I am just a "tool" and I do fullfill my purpose well so he has no need.

 

I am not entiltled to grants, for apparently i am "self sufficient"

 

And I cant afford to do day release

 

Over the last 2 years i have thrown all I have and more, at CPD, books and a degree course, and now I have hit a brick wall for I am in serious debt despite living the life of a poor man in order to learn.

 

I have put my home at risk, had weeks when all I have had is soup for tea, my car insurance has just been cancelled due to missed debits and I now have to drop the degree.

 

In order for me to continue learning i have to make some choices, CPD, or degree, and do you know what, the degree may get me the job I want, but I get more from the CPD like TEP seminars, Claus and others, and at least these are flexible and can be taken as and when i have a chance, i can "dip in and out" as finances and time allow.

 

I think there is something wrong, I mean seriously wrong, when the only way one can gain the papers is to live at home with Mommy and give up ones independence and role within the industry.

 

I want to work, and I want to learn, I want to pay my mortgage and pay my bills, am i really asking too much?

 

If i found the right job, this might be easier, but the right job seems to be taken, ironicly by 20 somethings that lived "in the system" while i was "touching trees" and learning and developing skills you cannot teach.

 

If our industry REALLY wants practical arbs to have the papers because the papers thus far have just produced "academics" then we need to change this situation.

 

There is some hope, Ive just been on the Treelife site and units/levels may be attainable via a stepped proscess by 2011, fingers crossed for 2011 in the meantime, i must withdraw and go pay my dues as i am now up to my neck and losing the will.

 

Thank God for arbtalk, and the Arbtalkers that acknowledge me and my work, for without you lot, I think i would perish right now.

 

Some of you have shown me a lot of respect and the fact my postings on fungi etc have been enjoyed so much is all that makes this all worthwhile at the mo.

 

Asplen brought it home to me, with his failed student comment, and i thank him for making the drop out easier, as if these are the atitudes of the "academics" i want no part of that, that downward glance on "us" then i want no part of that world.

 

For guys like Asplen, for the "top guns" who look down on the arbs without the papers, your industry place wont last much longer, when the real arbs find a way into your world we will have 30 years of coal face experience as well as your papers, and then and only then will arboriculture see "expert witnesses"

 

Dont get me wrong, there are a lot of good guys at the top, who would and do give "us" as much time as possible and encourage, but they are far and few between, there are far more asplens in this industry than The tony sorensens, the mick body's,the paul smiths, monkey D's etc

 

this is the hardest climb of my life, heartbreak ridge, my fingers are bloody and my nails are worn but tommorows another day and when ive gotten my bills paid "I will be back":thumbup1:

 

I am sorry for this negative rant, but i needed to express it and it needed saying.

 

Overly personal post? your darn right!

 

I wonder how many of you have a similar tale to tell?

[arbclimber]

Got one thing right mate, you are a tool.

 

Wouldn't worry about the likes of Asplen, the guy sent me a friend request, I looked at his posts and thought yeh, he seems alright, so added him. We exchanged a few pm's about the general level of education and literacy on here, as thats one of 'my things' as you know. Anyway, took no time at all to realise I had made a mistake so deleted him as a friend. The bloke had only sent the request cos he wanted marketing advice. Not cool:thumbdown:

 

As far as education goes, whats the point of CPD if you haven't got the qualifications that the CPD is supposed to back up? CPD isn't worth anything academically, unless it is used to back up a formal qualification.

 

Ill seriously have a think before I post anything else mate. Ill have a good think about what i'd do if I were you, and get back to you.

 

Chin up bud:thumbup1:

[ad15]

chin up mate..

 

have a look sideways (if you know what i mean)

 

you MAY be stuck at where you're at regarding arb quals etc BUT if you think a little laterally you could look at marketing/ business management or whatever, BUT it may be the step that gets you out on your own and running your own set up...

 

in the 5 mins i've been in this game i've met some top people and seen posts from some proper tools, what i've learnt is that this industry much like any other CAN be very narrow minded, and CAN have a very black/ white approach to anything not considered the norm,

 

 

well stuff the lot of it i say, you do what feels right, work hard, and you will get there in the end

 

 

I'll get my coat.

[chris cnc]

you are obviously a dedicated, enthusiastic and competent arborist and it is a crime that you are not being allowed to reach your potential.

 

im sure i read somewhere you used to run your own outfit, is this something you would consider doing again? as you clearly know what your doing, despite lack of quals.

 

good luck with the future mate and i hope it all works out for you.

[David Humphries]

Step off the train Tony.

 

What really is the rush?

You're still in your thirties.

 

What do you want to acheive long term?

 

 

The stress you are putting yourself under at this time is spinning your mojo.

That can't be a good learning environment.

 

Balance in work/cpd and patience, is/should be your nirvana.

 

Take stock of the "now"

Try and get a perspective of what you actually know.

Which is obviously loads already.

 

Puts me to shame in many areas.

 

 

Pay the bills first, then pick & choose what you would like to do & go on.

Just cause you may not this time, it doesn't mean you can't next time.

Even I can't take all the candy, either through work or off my own back, which is about 70/30, I don't get to go on everything I'd like.

 

I haven't been on the full time learning treadmill for a while, maybe I'm naively waiting on non existent educational goals.

But I feel the path is (& should be) long, to acheive the practical & theoretical knowledge required.

 

 

Have you thought about practical lecturing route?

 

Capel or Merrist maybe.

 

Would add a different layer to your Cv.

 

 

 

 

.

[ad15]

"What really is the rush?

You're still in your thirties."

 

there are some on here monkey that believe that once past 30 we should give up and get in the box....

[David Humphries]

Possibly in terms of climbing, but certainly not in other terms.

 

But I hear what you are saying Ad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[redmoosefaction]

This is such a crap situation to be in, you have such knowledge, perhaps you could start taking people out on your wanderings in the country side and charge something for your wonderful know how?

 

Perhaps as monkey'd says approach capel or merrist wood and take people on field trips, or even consultancy work where perhaps the director of the company would authorise your findings? I know of a consultancy firm in yorkshire who work in the south east who could probably use you, pm me and I will pass you their details back. They are real nice guys.

[Bolt]

The only consistant thing in my life, is my ability to take a perfectly OK situation and mess about with it.

 

Therefore this is not advice.

 

Some people choose the academic route from life. Hang around in seats of learning, learning more and more about less and less till they know everything about nothing. They then trot into a job and earn a nice wedge, or pass what they havent forgotten yet on to others.

This all seems to me very boring until you get to the 'earning a nice wedge' stage, but the problem is many have got too boring by this stage to enjoy it.

 

Many tree people choose doing somthing you enjoy, straight out of school.

Instant gratification, with some cash thrown in. The problem occurs when you start thinking that maybe there is a little more.

 

All to soon, those educated types are 'looking down on you'.

 

sod 'em

 

Feeling disatisfied as others get 'better' has always been a curse of mine. I carry along nicely for a month or 5, then something happens, and I become very dissatisfied with my lot. I then sign up for OU courses, cast about for new jobs or embark on 'becoming a chainsaw instructor' missions. After a while it all dies down and I am happy with my lot once more.

 

This is the problem with being in an industry that is basically great, although individual situations leave a lot to be desired at times. It's just too easy to put up with it and plod along.

 

Here is the saving grace of the tree industry...

 

Its easy to tack about in it.

 

In my time I have been a piece rate subby. An employer. An employee. A freelance instructor. An assessor. A contract manager. A H+S auditor. A sub contractor.

 

In hind sight no move has ever been a mistake, but I do regret that sometimes I didn't move sooner.

 

Loving your working life is a great gift, but it can come with a heavy burden.

 

You certainly have a presence on arbtalk, I can see why you shouldn't have an equal one in the real world.

 

PS. I got many £K from the OU to support learning towards a degree. It ain't going to be an arb degree, but it'll be a degree all the same. It should be in the bag by about 2017 (unless I get dissatisfied in the meantime) Ha Ha.

Edited May 29, 2010 by Bolt
Reason? there's no reason in this post.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Step off the train Tony.

 

What really is the rush?

You're still in your thirties.

 

What do you want to acheive long term?

 

 

The stress you are putting yourself under at this time is spinning your mojo.

That can't be a good learning environment.

 

Balance in work/cpd and patience, is/should be your nirvana.

 

Take stock of the "now"

Try and get a perspective of what you actually know.

Which is obviously loads already.

 

Puts me to shame in many areas.

 

 

Pay the bills first, then pick & choose what you would like to do & go on.

Just cause you may not this time, it doesn't mean you can't next time.

Even I can't take all the candy, either through work or off my own back, which is about 70/30, I don't get to go on everything I'd like.

 

I haven't been on the full time learning treadmill for a while, maybe I'm naively waiting on non existent educational goals.

But I feel the path is (& should be) long, to acheive the practical & theoretical knowledge required.

 

 

Have you thought about practical lecturing route?

 

Capel or Merrist maybe.

 

Would add a different layer to your Cv.

 

 

 

 

.

 

David, I dont know, I have "waited" for 22 years for a decent oportunity, I am not waiting anymore, this kiddo is a hungry dog whos sick of being treated like a machine who pumps out reductions and dismantles and is passed over for anything more.

 

i guess I am just fustrated and bored, I am micro managed to the enth degree, and my opinion is worthless and ignored, i am a machine not an asset, and i want to be chalenged and valued again.

 

Your right though, time is going to have to be appreciated more, and it isnt going to happen overnight, but ive spent 5 years with my head down and paying my dues since the scum shut me down and put me in 54k's worth of debt. the light is at the end of the tunnel and i need a break so badly, so very very badly.

 

What is the situation legaly in setting up a consulting business?