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madbopper
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I believe the terminology is native and naturalised.

 

From wiki

Native species are considered to be species which are today present in the region in question, and have been continuously present in that region since a certain period of time. When applied to Britain and Ireland, three possible definitions of this time constraint are:

 

A species that colonised these islands during the retreat of ice at the end of the last ice age

A species that was present in these islands when the English Channel was created and the land bridge between Britain and continental Europe was flooded

A species that has colonised without human assistance; in some cases this is uncertain.

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Well the potato was first grown in Peru at some point between 8000 and 5000 bce in Peru and is only classified there, according to Wikipedia, domesticated not indigenous. So if it came here before Christ by the same logic it is still not indigenous. To explain I think domesticated means they took a wild plant and conducted gm to give the modern potato. Not suggesting this is an answer but it sure made me scratch my stubble.

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Indigenous would normally be referred to as native here as, JLA says. Also correct that the normal definition of native for the UK is that a species has to have arrived after the last ice age and before the land-bridge linking us to the continent eroded to form the English Channel. Some species are only native to certain areas however; beech, for example, is only native to the south-west of the UK, it is not considered native in north England or Scotland.

 

Naturalised refers to species which have been introduced by humans, but have been here for so long that they have effectively carved out their own niche. The only one I can think of is sycamore, a Roman introduction, which is considered naturalised. It will grown in natural rotation with ash: sycamore regenerating under ash, then ash under sycamore, then sycamore under ash..., you get the idea. They will also form part of the wider eco-system, supporting other organisms.

 

I think hard-core conservationists/environmentalists have a problem with "naturalised", tending to see things as either native or non-native.

 

 

 

Daythe trees, I've never heard of domesticated in relation to plants, but I suppose it is a good enough term for species which we grow agriculturally (just because I've never heard of it doesn't mean it isn't used or valid). or even silviculturally. I think you are confusing GM and breeding.

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Its usually used to mean arrived naturally at the end of the ice age eg beech is fine but English elm isn't. And certainly not introduced by the Romans eg sweet chestnut, or 16th century eg sycamore.

Presumably at some point you'd need to reset the clock but with man moving everything about, the meaning of native will get diluted from here on.

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For the record, I was certainly not trying to suggest that sycamore is native or indigenous, but it can be considered naturalised. There seems to be debate as to whether it was introduced in the 16th or 17th centuries, the middle ages or by the romans.

 

Categorising species as native or non-native will always cause the debate as to whether we count humankind as a part of the natural order, and at what point in time do we remove ourselves from nature, however, in it's current accepted use, I see no reason that the meaning of native should become diluted: it is a species which made it to a locality without human intervention.

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I was talking to an ecologist about this a while ago and apparently for a plant to be considered naturalised it only has to have a self sustaining population. i.e. that it doesn't require re-introduction to the wild to continue to survive. His suggestion was that if it reproduces for 3 generations that's enough. It doesn't need to be here for years and years. Plants which require continual re-introduction to survive are referred to as cultivated.

 

Sycamore and sweet chestnut are definitely naturalised unless you believe what Ted Green says that is. His view is that sycamore is native and even refers to it as Celtic Maple. Last time is saw him speak he claimed to have proof of it. Not sure how he gets around its absence within the fossil record but you never know.

 

Interesting debate! :thumbup:

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Its usually used to mean arrived naturally at the end of the ice age eg beech is fine but English elm isn't.

 

Elm is a really interesting one. English elm definitely isn't native to Britain - current thinking is that it is native to somewhere in Turkey. However DNA analysis (2004) identified that it is a single strain of Ulmus minor, rather than a distinct species. U.minor is more contentious - because it usually propagates from suckers it is not very fertile, but it can and does set fertile seed in the UK, about every 20-30yrs which is quite frequently enough for sustained propagation. It was also largely wiped out in the 16th century, probably by a previous strain of elm disease, so the current genetics are very narrow compared with what may previously have been. As such, there is nothing concrete as to whether U.minor is native or was brought here by man over the land bridge.

 

The same is probably true of other species - did the acorns gradually fall further and further and north as the ice receded, or did a man drop a few out of his backpack....?

 

Alec

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