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To build a barn from oak or larch, or bit of both?


SteveA
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After thoughts and advice:

We're going to be building a 12m x 7m barn to be clad with waney edge boards.

 

What are the positive / negatives between using Green Oak vs Larch? eg, as I understand oak will rust out metal fixings unless they are stainless steel.

 

In terms of build costs and durability.....

 

1. Oak frame with oak cladding

2. Oak frame with larch cladding

3. Larch frame with oak cladding

4. Larch frame with larch cladding

 

Which would you choose and why?

 

Cheers

Steve

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I have always gone with oak frame and larch cladding.

I started using douglas for framing as it is slightly cheaper and lighter.

Green oak is lovely to cut, just like butter. The larch I used was always cut to 7'' x 3/4 in 12' or 16' lengths to be used for the ship-lap and everything else including doors, facia boards etc.

You can get bronze annular ring nails for just this job but I can go back to buildings that I was involved with 30 years ago and there's no fixing issues, at that time ordinary galvanised nails were used! There are no fixings except the pegs on a proper traditionally framed building if you are building it using mortice & tenon joints.

There's no harm with larch on larch but you have to spray for wood-worm on the main framing. They only get in the sap wood but you don't want them there at all really.

codlasher

Edited by codlasher
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I have always gone with oak frame and larch cladding.

I started using douglas for framing as it is slightly cheaper and lighter.

Green oak is lovely to cut, just like butter. The larch I used was always cut to 7'' x 3/4 in 12' or 16' lengths to be used for the ship-lap and everything else including doors, facia boards etc.

You can get bronze annular ring nails for just this job but I can go back to buildings that I was involved with 30 years ago and there's no fixing issues, at that time ordinary galvanised nails were used! There are no fixings except the pegs on a proper traditionally framed building if you are building it using mortice & tenon joints.

There's no harm with larch on larch but you have to spray for wood-worm on the main framing. They only get in the sap wood but you don't want them there at all really.

codlasher

 

Cheers Codlasher, that is helpful :thumbup1:

Hadn't thought about using bronze nails vs stainless.

While you're here.... where do timber framers get most of their supplies, for fixings, plates, up-stands, etc

 

Don't like the thought of having to treat for wood-worm. Hmmm

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I think the galvanising on nails has taken a hit in quality over the last 15 years. Current galv fixings flake very badly if driven into hard timber, you may be best off going for stainless or silicon bronze. I think stainless is a bit easier to get hold of, but I'm not sure how the price stacks up.

 

Build with what you've got, I think either of your timbers make lovely cladding and framing. If anything I'd clad with Larch as it is less likely to wriggle about and be naughty. If you take the time to set up decent roof overhangs and guttering, then it'll last beautifully.

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I think the galvanising on nails has taken a hit in quality over the last 15 years. Current galv fixings flake very badly if driven into hard timber, you may be best off going for stainless or silicon bronze. I think stainless is a bit easier to get hold of, but I'm not sure how the price stacks up.

 

Build with what you've got, I think either of your timbers make lovely cladding and framing. If anything I'd clad with Larch as it is less likely to wriggle about and be naughty. If you take the time to set up decent roof overhangs and guttering, then it'll last beautifully.

 

Cheers for info.

For durable wood we mostly have oak and quite a bit is wide, tall & straight to choose from....but not sure what varieties of oak we have? Presumably some oaks are more durable, some not? (so I've been told).

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Cheers for info.

For durable wood we mostly have oak and quite a bit is wide, tall & straight to choose from....but not sure what varieties of oak we have? Presumably some oaks are more durable, some not? (so I've been told).

 

Larch off the ground will last longer than the lives of you and I put together as without going into the science - it's naturally resistant to wood decay fungi.

 

I have trees milled, stack dead level on bearers with stickers every 450mm between, profile sheet over weighted with blocks, somewhere not too windy, paint ends with 3 coats oil based paint. Only a few months to get boards down to 16/17% time of year dependant.

 

Not a great fan of green oak in the ground, so for a quality job, I concrete in concrete stubs or Galv. RSJ stubs and bolt on Larch stantions.

 

Flocked roof profile sheets well worth the money if you wish to avoid condensation drips - great care not to damage flocking though!

 

Good luck.

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Larch off the ground will last longer than the lives of you and I put together as without going into the science - it's naturally resistant to wood decay fungi.

 

I have trees milled, stack dead level on bearers with stickers every 450mm between, profile sheet over weighted with blocks, somewhere not too windy, paint ends with 3 coats oil based paint. Only a few months to get boards down to 16/17% time of year dependant.

 

Not a great fan of green oak in the ground, so for a quality job, I concrete in concrete stubs or Galv. RSJ stubs and bolt on Larch stantions.

 

Flocked roof profile sheets well worth the money if you wish to avoid condensation drips - great care not to damage flocking though!

 

Good luck.

 

We'll have approx 25cm roofing overhang.

How far off the ground do you suggest keeping the timber?

We've been thinking of going around the barn perimeter with concrete blocks and having the posts sat on that, so the oak posts & larch cladding would be about 6" above ground level.

Going for a zinc roof which will have insulation under, so no concerns about condensation.

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I always put down x3 courses of bricks which is the same as x1 course of blocks. Then you can bed your wall plate onto this (Remember the damp proof course) and fix if you feel the need to. If you are doing it 'proper' like you only need to stop slippage.

If you do get any bad buckling no matter how good your fixings are the timber will lift any masonry!:thumbdown:

Your weatherboard will then oversail the first course by 2'' using a tilt fillet and any rain that runs down the cladding will drip off nicely.

Never ever put oak in the ground, it has a surprisingly short lifespan!

This company will have nearly all you require in silicone bronze fixings and as you can see they also specialise in stainless:thumbup1:Marine Services in Suffolk

Here is a little picture as an example of the traditional upright joint.:big grin:

 

I made this little barn 20 years ago as a scale replica of a big 75' x 25' six bay barn locally. I wanted to 'do' the proper joints for a fun exercise. I have found over the years, no matter how big the barn is it takes x5 days to cut all the joints and half a day to assemble the frame!:thumbup:

codlasher

DSC02148.jpg.a13fa106234ec48b4bfaa919dad434ec.jpg

Edited by codlasher
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I always put down x3 courses of bricks which is the same as x1 course of blocks. Then you can bed your wall plate onto this (Remember the damp proof course) and fix if you feel the need to. If you are doing it 'proper' like you only need to stop slippage.

If you do get any bad buckling no matter how good your fixings are the timber will lift any masonry!:thumbdown:

Your weatherboard will then oversail the first course by 2'' using a tilt fillet and any rain that runs down the cladding will drip off nicely.

Never ever put oak in the ground, it has a surprisingly short lifespan!

This company will have nearly all you require in silicone bronze fixings and as you can see they also specialise in stainless:thumbup1:Marine Services in Suffolk

Here is a little picture as an example of the traditional upright joint.:big grin:

 

I made this little barn 20 years ago as a scale replica of a big 75' x 25' six bay barn locally. I wanted to 'do' the proper joints for a fun exercise. I have found over the years, no matter how big the barn is it takes x5 days to cut all the joints and half a day to assemble the frame!:thumbup:

codlasher

 

That's superb. I would so love to be able to do framing & peg joints like that. Don't know where I'd begin??

Have got plenty of trees to choose from but not even sure which are most suitable.

Thankyou for the info and for the link, much appreciated. Cheers, Steve

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Dan of; Connecting timber, trees and people. | Woodenways does courses. As you can see on his website.:001_tongue:

 

You can start by doing a simple mortice & tenon joint and work up from there. I did and over thirty-something years have acquired a heap of useful knowledge and machinery. I miss my dads old sawmill but I have found another similar for sourcing the timber.

Look at timber framed buildings; look at how they are put together, look at the joints and the scale between the timber & joint too.

Some timber is better than others, like all things.:001_smile:

You want a strong, light, insect free frame. This rules out spruce unless you treat or paint it. Oak is king as it cuts soooo nicely. Larch is fine too but douglas is my favourite, but you have to have sharp tools for douglas as it is very stringy.

Oak is the only really fireproof timber, remember that. Beech, ash and any fruit is prone to insect problems.

There are many, many books to point you in whichever direction you wish to go.:biggrin:

codlasher

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