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Old 04-05-12   #1 (permalink)
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Has H&S gone miles too far

I understand the idea is to make people aware of the risks on site and to prevent accidents and make the work enviroment safer. But I have come to the conclusion this week most of it is about creating cushy jobs for spotty faced university grads that dont want to do the work themselves get wet or dirty. The test of a good health and safety man is how much paper, grief and hassle they can cause for no good reason or effect Rant over time for a drink
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Old 04-05-12   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Has H&S gone miles too far

TBH I think its more about making work for those who have been in the industry for a while and either can't hack it or just fancy a cushier job.
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Old 04-05-12   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Has H&S gone miles too far

H & S has come about mainly through litigation...

Someone has an accident=someone is sued... report made.... how can we avoid this happening again.... = further risk assessment, more safety devices, a little more red tape, another hoop to jump through...


How about you train someone for a job and then you trust them to do that job unless strong evidence suggests otherwise?
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Old 04-05-12   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Has H&S gone miles too far

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H & S has come about mainly through litigation...

Someone has an accident=someone is sued... report made.... how can we avoid this happening again.... = further risk assessment, more safety devices, a little more red tape, another hoop to jump through...



How about you train someone for a job and then you trust them to do that job unless strong evidence suggests otherwise?
I really don't think this is true, can you find me one case of equipment failure causing a climbing accident??, yet we have LOLER.
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Old 04-05-12   #5 (permalink)
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I really don't think this is true, can you find me one case of equipment failure causing a climbing accident??, yet we have LOLER.
No. But...
Loler applies to more than just climbing equipment, any gear that holds you or equipment off the ground is i think covered. The guy who took my mewp course while Loler inspecting cherry pickers has seen cracked welding, missing or loose bolts, disabled safety devices etc. This could well have prevented accidents.
I know most of us can check our own gear and are happy with that, but Loler does have a place in preventing equipment failure related accidents, and some people just don't check their own gear, blind faith in it guides them!
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Old 04-05-12   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Has H&S gone miles too far

It has a lot to do with people not taking responsibility for their own actions and stupidity....
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Old 04-05-12   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Has H&S gone miles too far

I think your right about the litigation. You write a method statement and operate outside of that and have an accident they can wash their hands of all responsability even if they were partly to blame. H&S = pass the buck. Its also easier for large companies to employ one geek to write endless reams of babble than a small business. Sometime I get sent a cd with 500 pages to read understand and sign. Luckily we have plenty of other work and a shredder that copes with cds
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Old 04-05-12   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Has H&S gone miles too far

Agreed, the aim I think for the h&s person is to bring about a standstill.
To illustrate I did a day on a concrete mixer truck. One site all bannered out considerate constructor, etc. Building a school.

To avoid sticking to their own liability, all subbies on site. Everyone miserable cannot wait to get off site to another job, always made to feel like a naughty schoolboy.
I had to fill out a form on entering site, thou shalt not and around 10 commandments, The form also asked how far you had travelled to site(assume this is for another penpusher to fill his/her days figuring out carbon footprint whilst running heating and lighting in an office!
One of the commandments was.Do not leave the ground without appropriate fall arrest equipment in place. I said "Ive got the ladder on the back of the truck that will do?" The security guy said ok. But if not I could not of washed the concrete chute and hopper out at the end of the job and concrete would of dripped off the back on the road, ruining their image and potentially causing damage to vehicles on the highway.
Another one DO NOT REVERSE WITHOUT BANKSMAN. Which you have to do several times because no one wants responsibility and lack interest as they are always watching their own backs. Then what really amazed me on site a Man in full fall arrest gear on a flatbed artic trailer hooking up a cranes hook to lift concrete beams off the trailer, he was attached to a cord hung off the tines of a large merlo telehandler.
My personal risk assessment would be. If anything goes for example the crane driver has a heart attack and slumps slewing the crane round wiping the handler out, bungeeing me on a tether. I'd rather risk falling 5ft in to a mudbath.
I incidentally drove the mixer between the merlo and the trailer, whilst he was attached as no one was helping me where to take the load. But I wasn't bothered because like everyone else on site a ban is in your favour.

I don't have a bad attitude to helping people but, H&S is now getting excessive, costing a fortune demoralising staff taking away self esteem and job interest, and in some cases creating power hungry unreasonable tyrants.

Incidently my only dangerous experiences on a concrete mixer are getting hung up in a hi vis vest, on the inside of the cab door and on once on the ladders at the back!
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Old 04-05-12   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Has H&S gone miles too far

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I really don't think this is true, can you find me one case of equipment failure causing a climbing accident??, yet we have LOLER.

Used to work in the health service (psychi) Dave and through that you come into contact with lots of other different professions.

Most H&S is there so that you can't be sued i.e. I have followed what the guidelines have stipulated, I can prove it as it's all written down....

And when someone does get sued all the 'higher ups' run around to invent more red tape so if the same accident/problem occurs their backsides are covered.... that is what H&S has become....

Ironic because in turning into such a multi headed monster it may well cause the opposite - less safe working conditions!
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Old 04-05-12   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Has H&S gone miles too far

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I really don't think this is true, can you find me one case of equipment failure causing a climbing accident??, yet we have LOLER.
LOLER has it's origins in European legislation, it wouldn't exist but for Brussels.
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