Newbie with boggy unmanaged mostly broadleaf woodland...

[Hobby_Woodsman]

My wife and I are about to take ownership, legal niceties permitting,

of a hectare of unmanaged woodland with a strip of rough grass paddock.

 

I have spoken to the local council's representative as the woodland is

subject to a Tree Preservation Order. Slapped on by the council without

thought or site visit when the original site was banded for change

of use from school to office. The Council's man seemed very keen for us to

remove all the Silver Birch and let the established but stifled Beech

and Oak trees grow away. There are a few holly bushes but everything is

quite thin and leggy. The Silver Birches have suffered and a fair number of

them have been blown over, and are hung up, by the winter storms of recent years.

 

We believe the majority of standing trees are about 70-90 years old.

The woodland itself was a sand pit last in commercial use around

the last war. It lies about 4-10' below the level of our garden.

Being low lying it is not aided by being on the flood plain of the local river

so it gathers and holds water with little difficulty. The soil is a mix of sand over

ball(China) clay.

 

We have to find a way of drying out part of the woods. Hopefully this

may be a case of developing the existing natural drain-ways into proper drainage

ditches and clearing a perimeter ditch of it's near total silting up. The main

problem is that there is not access for even a tiny digger with which to

make this work speedy and a shorter term occupation.

 

The standing water in the summer makes an ideal place for mosquito and

gnats to breed so drying things out or controlling the water table may

reduce this natural nuisance. In the spring there are a few ducks on the

largest area of standing water about the size of a large garden pond perhaps

400 to 500 square feet and it would be nice to improve this space to make it

better suited to visiting wild fowl.

 

Other wildlife consists of the usual small brown birds, a number of

Thrushes, Great Tits, Long-tailed Tits, Buzzards and the odd Roe deer.

At night we hear Brown and Tawny Owls calling. As for insects there are

a few butterflies and in our main garden several wood-ant nests. Plus

Hornet wasps and Bumble Bees make use of the Devon banks and Beech

hedge boundary on the south side of our garden.

 

We are talking to a couple of groundwork contractors about making a

'ride' to give access to smaller mechanical aids. I have read about the

use of adapted Lawn Tractors/Ride-on mowers, with fixed axles and ATV

tyres being the affordable way to get transport in and out what we can't carry.

Plus a Tir-for winch and some snatch blocks to assist in getting the better of

the many hung up trees, which just need a bit of a pull at the base to get them

prone...famous last words.

 

This seems an inexpensive way forward for our woodland and garden needs.

A cheap Alpine tractor is outside our means; little Grey Fergies, Leyland 145's

and their ilk are the preserve of collectors and enthusiasts.

 

On the Eastern boundary of the woodland we will gain a 'paddock' of

rough grass (approximately 15m x 50m) and we'd like to plant this with

Sweet Chestnut and/or Hazel as a screen to the spike topped security fence

of the neighbours property. But it is quite shady so this may not a

feasible option.

 

Although we doubt we will get the copsing material into more than it's

first cut in 10-12 years time.

 

The woodland and paddock are in a mostly East-West alignment. Currently

we need some advise us on how best to get this grand plan

into action in affordable stages over the next 10-15 years. We are open to

suggestions and thoughts from those who have trod this path before.

[wicklamulla]

sounds like an exciting project. wish i had some sage advice fer ya, alas i don't. I'd love to see it or see some pics if ya fancy putting some up on here. Good luck with it.

[agg221]

Sounds like a great project - there is a piece of land I have my eye on just down from us of similar size which I would like to plant up as a coppice. Only bit I can comment on is your paddock - if it's shady sweet chestnut won't like it. Hazel will be fine though. If 70-90yrs old, birch probably is reaching the end of its life at this point whereas the oak and beech are still young. It may be worth getting someone who knows what they are looking at to walk the wood with you and identify ideal spacings, trees with a good or bad form to keep/remove etc. From your description, it sounds like someone decent is likely to think the same way as the tree officer anyway which is a good thing. Also think about what you want to do with the trees you fell. If they are to be extracted for firewood then you need a way to do this. For your own use, you could literally ring it up where it falls and move it out in a wheelbarrow to your access rides but if there is more than this you need to think about what is going to happen to it.

 

Alec

[Wendelspanswick]

I wouldn't discount a grey Fergie, I bought one cheap about 25 years ago and although I completely neglect it (I've changed the oil twice in the years I've owned it) it's a real work horse. It lives outside and always has a flat battery but a quick swing of the starting handle and it will fire up even if it hasn't been started in 6 months.

If you get a TE20 with an earth scoop you can dig your own drainage ditches.

 

Mine ploughs, runs a saw bench, pulls logs out of the wood, runs a hydraulic log splitter, pulls a 3 ton tipping trailer, carries split logs around in the link box, digs ponds and clears rides with the earth scoop, pulls a bracken roller and finally taught both my kids to drive!

Edited December 26, 2016 by Wendelspanswick

[Andrew McEwan]

I think the RFS may still be running their scheme that provides new members with a free visit from a local forestry consultant. Site visits provided voluntarily by RFS members.

[matelot]

If the site is waterlogged the tree roots won't go below the water table, that means you'll always get a lot of trees getting blown over.

 

If it was me, I would probably plant water loving trees (like willow and alder) on the wetter areas and let the oak and beech grow on the drier areas.

 

I would also dig a massive pond. An excavator doesn't cost that much to hire a day. If you have fish in the pond they should eat the mosquitoes.

 

When it comes to earthworks a larger excavator can be cheaper than hiring a small exactor. A 1.5 tonne exavator can get bogged down while a 10 tonne excavator can sit on a dry area and clean out the wet areas.

[muldonach]

My wife and I are about to take ownership, legal niceties permitting,

of a hectare of unmanaged woodland with a strip of rough grass paddock.

 

I have spoken to the local council's representative as the woodland is

subject to a Tree Preservation Order........

The Council's man seemed very keen for us to

remove all the Silver Birch and let the established but stifled Beech

and Oak trees grow away. There are a few holly bushes but everything is

quite thin and leggy. The Silver Birches have suffered and a fair number of

them have been blown over, and are hung up, by the winter storms of recent years.

 

We believe the majority of standing trees are about 70-90 years old.

The woodland itself was a sand pit last in commercial use around

the last war. It lies about 4-10' below the level of our garden.

Being low lying it is not aided by being on the flood plain of the local river

so it gathers and holds water with little difficulty. The soil is a mix of sand over

ball(China) clay.

 

We have to find a way of drying out part of the woods. Hopefully this

may be a case of developing the existing natural drain-ways into proper drainage

ditches and clearing a perimeter ditch of it's near total silting up. The main

problem is that there is not access for even a tiny digger with which to

make this work speedy and a shorter term occupation.

 

The standing water in the summer makes an ideal place for mosquito and

gnats to breed so drying things out or controlling the water table may

reduce this natural nuisance. In the spring there are a few ducks on the

largest area of standing water about the size of a large garden pond perhaps

400 to 500 square feet and it would be nice to improve this space to make it

better suited to visiting wild fowl.

 

Other wildlife consists of the usual small brown birds, a number of

Thrushes, Great Tits, Long-tailed Tits, Buzzards and the odd Roe deer.

At night we hear Brown and Tawny Owls calling. As for insects there are

a few butterflies and in our main garden several wood-ant nests. Plus

Hornet wasps and Bumble Bees make use of the Devon banks and Beech

hedge boundary on the south side of our garden.

 

We are talking to a couple of groundwork contractors about making a

'ride' to give access to smaller mechanical aids. I have read about the

use of adapted Lawn Tractors/Ride-on mowers, with fixed axles and ATV

tyres being the affordable way to get transport in and out what we can't carry.

Plus a Tir-for winch and some snatch blocks to assist in getting the better of

the many hung up trees, which just need a bit of a pull at the base to get them

prone...famous last words.

 

This seems an inexpensive way forward for our woodland and garden needs.

A cheap Alpine tractor is outside our means; little Grey Fergies, Leyland 145's

and their ilk are the preserve of collectors and enthusiasts.

 

On the Eastern boundary of the woodland we will gain a 'paddock' of

rough grass (approximately 15m x 50m) and we'd like to plant this with

Sweet Chestnut and/or Hazel as a screen to the spike topped security fence

of the neighbours property. But it is quite shady so this may not a

feasible option.

 

Although we doubt we will get the copsing material into more than it's

first cut in 10-12 years time.

 

The woodland and paddock are in a mostly East-West alignment. Currently

we need some advise us on how best to get this grand plan

into action in affordable stages over the next 10-15 years. We are open to

suggestions and thoughts from those who have trod this path before.

 

Unless you have a deep enough wallet to treat this as a garden then my advice would be to run - don't walk - away.

 

Beech and oak trrees do not grow in bogs, your site is a former sand pit over clay and lower than the surrounding land - unless you can identify and negotiate a way to excavate a drain to a point lower than the lowest point you wish to drain, then you are on a hiding to nothing trying to drain it.

 

If you want to remove pioneer birch then you do not need a tractor of any shape form or description - you need a chainsaw - cut them to waste and leave them, they will be gone in 2 or 3 years and the bugs will love the rotting timber and the birds will love the bugs. If you really want to do the green thing then just ring bark them.

 

Unfortunately neither the bugs nor the birds will prevent the birch regrowth so you can look forward to repeating the exercise. It almost sounds as if they are overstood and dying out anyway - no point in fussing about hung up birch - they will break and fall in a couple of years. If the whole wood is covered by a TPO then you will have a nightmare doing anything with a chainsaw, if the council does not hassle you some tosser will hassle them.

 

You also need to decide if you are going to drain it or develop your pond - its not likely you will succeed with both. You say there is no access for even a small digger - I assume this is for legal reasons since we can get our machine just about anywhere - if no road exists when we arrive we soon make one!

 

If you are set on the purchase then buy it and leave it alone, unless you can get the TPO lifted. There is no point in spending any money unless it is part of a garden.

 

It sounds fine the way it is - why not leave it like that?

 

Been treading this boggy path for 20 years now. Its always a lot more difficult and expensive than it looks.

 

Cheers

mac

Edited December 26, 2016 by muldonach
postnote

[Hobby_Woodsman]

Thank you for your thoughts.

 

The land is the result of a settlement on a long dispute with a neighbour.

 

I wanted to guarantee a buffer between my new neighbour and my home; the 'paddock' and the wood are that barrier/buffer.

 

The woodland will be landlocked to any other purchaser, if it is not part of this settlement as my property will be the only place to gain access to it.

 

The land was purchased by the current owner for £17k for a project, that project has failed and the land has a current value of about £6-8K.

 

Whilst not worth anything of commercial significance and none with the TPO it will provide my extended family and I with a space of natural interest which we can manage in relatively low impact manner.

 

I did ask about getting the TPO overturned, but I do not have the finances to fight the local council on the matter. If I failed I would be no further forward. So working inside the terms and understanding of what can be done will probably not be too much of a restriction. More so as the Council man is happy to control the silver birch.

 

Most of what is felled will be left to recycle, being shady and Devon based, the felled trees will rot down fairly quickly.

 

The only reason for taking out the hung up trees is to make it safer to enjoy the space without fear of a tree falling on me or other visitors. From the boundary of the wood I have clear views across to Dartmoor.

 

There are no rides or other routes through or around the woodland, walking is a struggle due to the sheer number of weedy birches, so something more defined is needed. Then wheeled transport mountain bike/lawn tractor can get in and out, which will make the enjoyment of the space and the views more accessible.

 

If we get some suitable weather in the next few days I'll try and get a few shots of the space for your delectation. Once I have learned how to upload...

[cornish wood burner]

It would help to know exactly what access you do have?

Worst case it sounds like you might need to crane a digger or whatever over your house.

Using a walk behind muncher then a rotavator might be worth considering.

[spandit]

The TPO may just be there to prevent clear felling and building. Once you draught a suitable management plan you may well get the go-ahead from the council. Radically altering the drainage may cause existing trees to die if they've had no need to put down deep roots.

 

Clarify what you really want the woodland to be - too much interference will be detrimental to wildlife that tends to establish itself in what's available. Trying to force the landscape into something it's not is likely to result in failure or vast expense.

 

Anyway, pictures please & good luck!