Do I need cs30?

[chazzerb]

I am 16 and I have been offered some hedging work for grant on a per metre rate. As I would be working self employed, do I legally need any nptc certificates to use chainsaws or not?

[Rupe]

You dont legally need it, but anyone employing you to use a chainsaw will need you to have it. You may be self employed but someone is paying you so they are your employer and they need you to have correct NPTC for whatever you are doing.

 

Its not illegal as such, the police wont be along to arrest you. If you are offered work without NPTC and choose to take the work and you get the work done without incident or accident and you get paid then no one will be the wiser.

 

You only "legally" need it when your lying in hospital with an arm/leg missing and you decide to sue the person who hired you, as they would be found to be liable for your injuries. So in fact they need you to have it to free them from said liability.

[AardvarkTreeServices]

As rupe says there is no legal requirement to have a specific qualification. BUT there is a legal requirment for you to be competant and suitably trained. This applies whether you are employed or self employed. As a 16 year old the HSE also see you as a young worker that most probably needs a degree of supervision that they may not expect an older worker to have.

 

If you are working for a domestic householder then you are responsible for your H+S. If working for another business then H+S responsibility may not all be yours but you still have a part to play.

 

Unless you've been working for a while supervised and in line with best practice, I would say do the CS30 and any question of training and competance is covered

[Rupe]

No there no legal requirement for him to be trained and competent, he's allowed to be untrained and incompetant!

 

The legal requirement is for the employer. Even if self employed the person handing over the money is breaking employment law.

[agrimog]

"As rupe says there is no legal requirement to have a specific qualification. BUT there is a legal requirment for you to be competant and suitably trained. " this has cropped up time and time again, a certain group of people have decided this must mean NPTC or similar IT DOES NOT, it means what it says and no more, if you are shown how to operate the equpment, and the person who shows you is satisfied you are competent, this fufills the legal requirements of PUWER and H&S law

[Rupe]

"As rupe says there is no legal requirement to have a specific qualification. BUT there is a legal requirment for you to be competant and suitably trained. " this has cropped up time and time again, a certain group of people have decided this must mean NPTC or similar IT DOES NOT, it means what it says and no more, if you are shown how to operate the equpment, and the person who shows you is satisfied you are competent, this fufills the legal requirements of PUWER and H&S law

 

Agreed, but unlikely to hold up with a 16yr old.

 

If I employed a 40yr old who had been using saws all his life and I watched him work and in my experience I was happy he was competant then that would be fine, I'm sure, but a 16yr old no way! NPTC is there as a minmum standard so that employers know there is a level of competancy, and then they still have to observe that competancy as well, so its not a free ticket to any employement.

 

So, in the opposite example, if I employ someone with NPTC and I see that they are in fact incompetant and unsafe then I would be negligent in continuing to employ them, or allowing them to use a saw.

 

So, I agree NPTC is not the be all and end all of the situation, competancy is what is required by HSE whoever that competancy is observed/proven is not relavant, NPTC is one marker which we hope is sufficient but I have know plenty of cases that follower the latter example above.

[AardvarkTreeServices]

No there no legal requirement for him to be trained and competent, he's allowed to be untrained and incompetant!

 

The legal requirement is for the employer. Even if self employed the person handing over the money is breaking employment law.

 

Have to disagree with you on this one. Everyone at work has to have suitable training and be competant regardless of whether they are employed or self employed. As has been said it doesnt need to be NPTC or any other formal accreditation, but traing and competancy must exist. Training can be reading the owners manual or an experienced guy teaching you all he knows, but trained you must be!!! A self employed person working for a domestic customer has 100% responsibility for his own H+S and could be prosecuted for breaches of law.

 

At 16 the original poster would be well advised to get some training before starting a saw.

[Rupe]

Hi, you are infact agreeing with me there then! Thats what I said! Everyone at work regardless of employed or self employed has to be competant and suitable trained! Yes, thats what I said. It doesnt have to be in the form of NPTC, yes I said that too.

 

But thats the employer who has to abide by employment law. In a domestic situation the homeowner "could" (I say could as in possibly, not stating a fact) be seen as the employer and be prosecuted in the event of an accident.

 

The worker would not be prosectuted by HSE if he cut his own leg off! I think the HSE would consider the fine to have been paid! The employer or homeowner however could be prosecuted. There would be no action taking by the HSE if a 16yr old made money from domestic work and there was no accident or complaint.

 

It is still wrong though, so agree the 16 yr old should get some training, but in my opinion that should be NPTC plus 4-5yrs work undersupervision.

[agg221]

For the OP - I suspect you're looking at a Catch 22 on covering the cost of training before being paid for the job?

 

One suggestion is to use a Silky hand saw. If you haven't tried one, they are extremely quick cutting Japanese pull saws. No idea what your hedge is like, but if the majority of stems are 4" or under it would be viable and to be honest may not even be slower by the time you factor in starting/stopping/ppe on and off etc. Buy the right one and you'll comfortably go through 8" stuff, so long as you aren't doing too many of them in a day.

 

You still need 'training' (and believe me, they bite, as the scar on my face attests) but a formal training course would not be required, and you would also save costs on fuel, oil, PPE etc. If access requires a fair trek then it's a lot less to carry too.

 

Plenty of recommendations (and opinions ) on here as to which one is best for a particular job. Just a thought.

 

Alec

[Rupe]

To the OP, I would be interested to know why you are being offered this work (considering your age and lack of experience and certification) and who by??

 

I would assume its because you can be had at a cheap price, so the person offering you this work is actually shafting you with a big stick, and its they that would be breaking the law.