Set up for an apprentice

[john meehan]

Hi all,

.just looking for dome general opinions really. We have an apprentice who bad in the last couple of months started to learn to climb. He is at Myrscough so will be doing his ticket etc there.

 

Hes been using a prussic and a flip line, as is pretty much standard i suppose before any formal training. Anyway he has asked if he can use a hitchclimber type type system to learn on instead. Myself i don't see any harm as he is not going to climb on a prussic once he has past his cs38. He knows how to tie the all the knots involved in a 3 knot system and can tie a prussic etc already.

 

Really i just want to know if it could a detrimental affect on his cs38 or be frowned upon at college/industry in General.

 

I really don't understand why we still teach climbing on a prussic as a viable way to climb, its has such bad effects on the body etc i feel it should just be taught as an emergency and the training side of our industry should embrace newer more ergonomic techniques.

 

Thanks guys

 

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[Lively]

I did all my training using a simple prussic as my college didn't let me climb on anything else, but on my actual assessment the guy was down to earth and after me showing him the classic prussic and 3 knot system he inspected my hitch climber and loler ticket, he let me use that.

I would say it depends on the instructor.

[john meehan]

That sounds quite sensible, you might ad well do the cert climbing on a system you are going to climb on. I might have a chat with the college,thanks mate

 

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[Tommy_B]

Prussic knots are used as they are bomb proof and you have to assume that you have people who have never tied a knot in their life so they need something easy and reliable. You wouldn't want to have to rely on a VT being tied, dressed and set every time when you've got a lot going on in your head!!

 

With regard to the climbing system an apprentice uses, it can literally be anything. As long as its suitable for use, safe to do what you are requiring it to do and has been inspected as fit for purpose. Any work based assessor would need to have a fairly good reason to fail someone for using a hitchclimber system. Make sure that he doesn't get too much slack (500mm) in his climbing system and you'll be fine in my humble opinion!!

[OakStag]

i spent the first 8 months of climbing on a prussik becsuse people insisted it will make you alot better climber very glad i listened to them everythings alot harder on a prussik and requires in my opinion more skill, so when you go onto a hitch you ckimbing speed doubles and youre alot more competant and find climbing easy

 

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[john meehan]

Prussic knots are used as they are bomb proof and you have to assume that you have people who have never tied a knot in their life so they need something easy and reliable. You wouldn't want to have to rely on a VT being tied, dressed and set every time when you've got a lot going on in your head!!

 

With regard to the climbing system an apprentice uses, it can literally be anything. As long as its suitable for use, safe to do what you are requiring it to do and has been inspected as fit for purpose. Any work based assessor would need to have a fairly good reason to fail someone for using a hitchclimber system. Make sure that he doesn't get too much slack (500mm) in his climbing system and you'll be fine in my humble opinion!!

Your right about the prussic being bomber, i suppose you can't really go wrong with tying it. I hadn't really thought about him doing g it under pressure in a test situation. He will be doing it again and again and again though lol.

 

I think maybe a hitchclimber and a knute to start with will be better. If he can use it in the test its all good i suppose. Just the slack tending to drum into him.

 

Thanks for your advice

 

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[john meehan]

i spent the first 8 months of climbing on a prussik becsuse people insisted it will make you alot better climber very glad i listened to them everythings alot harder on a prussik and requires in my opinion more skill, so when you go onto a hitch you ckimbing speed doubles and youre alot more competant and find climbing easy

 

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I hear you there mate, everything definitely is harder work. I did the same when i started.

 

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[Stoatally]

Knut or distel maybe. I can't see there's much difference between a standard prosaic and a hitch climber - it's still basically a friction knot. I don't see how an assessor can say anything as long as the system is attached correctly and used safely, and all other hits like the 3 knot system can be demonstrated. Even mechanical systems should be ok, providing it's all used safely.

[john meehan]

Thanks for the replies guys. I think we will.go down the hitchclimer route. It makes much more sence to me bettter to climb on anf more options etc. He can get to grips with what everyobe ekse doing then for arirel rescue situations etc.

 

Thanks again

 

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[Old Mill Tree Care]

Thanks for the replies guys. I think we will.go down the hitchclimer route. It makes much more sence to me bettter to climb on anf more options etc. He can get to grips with what everyobe ekse doing then for arirel rescue situations etc.

 

Thanks again

 

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I agree with what's been said and would only add that he shouldn't use a VT knot. Too unreliable. Distel or Knut is much better and safer.